Rob quickly responds to Bo and David before month's end...
Bodvar,
I'm glad we're buds again! *smile*. Your last post helped. But, one
clarification could help momentously! You said that "A non-dualistic SOM
makes no sense." It appears, however, the Pirsig mainly defends the MOQ
against such a non-dualistic SOM. Pirsig said that it is ridiculous to
distance oneself from experience or try to reduce experience to physics.
But that is only the quest of a materialist. If one accepts dualism, where
experience is separate from physics/structure, where is the redicularity?
What's the big problem? I repeat my original question:
Does Pirsig discuss duality?
Please understand this is very important to me and -- if resolved -- I would
be forever indebted!!
And if you have time, another slant... Yes, only the intellect creates a
notion of self. One will never find a self missing under a rock, or hear a
self clinking around in the brain. But, by intellectually conceding there
is an external reality, one can then concede also that there must be a self
apart from -- but attending to -- external reality. Since you applauded
John for bringing back the self, can you think of a way to do this without
some type of dualism? Does the experience vs. materialism duality debate
now escalate to self vs. value? And by doing this, don't we lose
time/space/structure.
RJS
-------------------
David,
I am very curious how you define your terms and ask for some
clarifications...
You say that
1. "... we exist as a kind of unique culture made of the four levels."
2. "... the social level is the link between the mind and the body."
3. "... to get a whole picture of the MOQ self we have to look at the social
level [the bridge]."
I'm pretty sure I follow you in (1) and (3). In (1) the four levels
comprise the entire spectrum of experience. And we are our experiences. I
find it impossible to imagine there being a "me" if I did not experience
anything. In (3) I think you are saying basically the same thing as (1)
with emphasis that we tend to forget the social level which is needed to put
everything together.
The very interesting part is (2). What exactly do you mean by "mind"? The
intellectual level/aspect of experience or the stream of consciousness (all
experience)? And what do you mean by body? Do you mean the body things we
experience or -- with your notion of time/space -- are you conceding it is a
physical *object* that maintains its structure despite experience?
I have not thought through the four possibilities, but I sense some good
debate coming. Its a shame this month is ending so quickly...
Regards,
RJS
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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