Re: LS Denis is searching for Quality and the Net is the new Agora

From: Magnus Berg (McMagnus@hem2.passagen.se)
Date: Tue Sep 21 1999 - 09:20:09 BST


Hi Denis and Squad

> > That's a truly unique feature, you can't have a cup of coffee inside itself.
> > You can't have any other type of pattern inside itself.
> >
>
> Right. But it's language, not Intellect, that has that propriety.
> In my previous post, I truncated the official definition for rhetoric
> purposes, so I'll complete it now :
>
> "Among the many subjects possible for discourse, are the languages
> themselves. They can, in any language, be described. This type of
> reflexive use of language constitutes what we call the metalanguage, and
> is the "sine qua non" condition of linguistics".

I'm not convinced. A language is nothing without intellectual patterns,
except maybe inorganic patterns. The egyptian hieroglyphs was just carvings
on papyrus before we knew the meaning of them, that is, before we knew which
intellectual patterns they represented.

On the other hand, intellectual patterns *must* have a language to sustain
itself. Otherwise it would effectively disappear. It would seem they are
inseparable but it's only because of the level dependency and I think it's
important to try. The definition above doesn't help much in that respect.
My definition of language goes something like:

A set of mappings between an intellectual pattern and another pattern, (possibly
also intellectual).

This way, a usual language like english, is a set of mappings between intellectual
patterns and mostly other types of patterns. On the other hand, a grammar is a
set of mappings between intellectual patterns and other intellectual patterns,
(the usual language).

Think about it, I doubt the Greek language developed much during the birth
of SOM, only the use of the existing language. The intellectual patterns using
the language evolved, the language probably also changed, but only to be able
to discuss the intellectual progress.

        Magnus

MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org



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