Re: LS Solaqi or not Solaqi: that's the problem?

From: Marco (mbona@tiscalinet.it)
Date: Sat Sep 25 1999 - 10:25:00 BST


MARCO FINISHED HIS LAST QUANTUM OF ENERGY AND THIS IS HIS LAST POST OF THE
MONTH.

My dear impervious Bo, it's not my will to divide MOQ between Northern (Bo
and Magnus....) and Southern (Denis, me...) Pirsigians. The division between
Right and Left Hegelians was the beginning of such a lot of problems!

I wrote:
> > Maybe the main point is to persuade Bo to this conclusion. But I
> > begin to understand him: if SOM is "only" an intPoV, and MOQ is
> > "only" another one, what will happen when the fifth level will
> > rise? Our intellectual pattern, our metaphysics, our MOQ, will
> > combat it , and we will be on the wrong side????
>

And this was your answer:
> YES! That's why I so badly want to see the Quality idea as a movement
> beyond Intellect. Allow me to pursue the evolutionary development
> seen in the SOLAQI light. It sort of requires that each level once
> were its ages' metaphysics=ALL THERE IS, and that the former was
> degraded once a new level came of age (To speak of the Inorganic as a
> metaphysics a bit weird but note that the physical/mental is no part
> of the MOQ). All right, once Biology had established itself it became
> ALL THERE IS, and the Inorganic were degraded into food or material
> for life. When Society spread itself on top of it, it became ALL
> THERE IS (we have reached agreement that any level is oblivious of
> any movement above itself) and Biology was degraded to "members" who
> were supposed to sacrifice themselves for the good of the many. As
> Intellect took over evolution's baton IT became ALL THERE IS (SOM)
> and Society was stripped of all honours and hardly tolerated (Ref.
> LILA about Intellect's contempt for Society).
>

Ok , a Level is not a sum of patterns, is the age in wich patterns of the
same kind become "leaders" of evolution. This means that intPoV were
existing thousands of years ago, but only in this century they have been
able to break loose from socPoV: that's why, for example, for the first time
a Nation (U.S.A.) has been defeated in a war (Vietnam) because intPoVs of
American people did not support that war. I think we agree on this point
(?).

> And now the strength of the SOM=Intellect idea shows. As you point out
> if the MENTAL/MIND image of Intellect is maintained where various
> metaphysics reside there is no way forward. Nothing can surpass such a
> value level!

Are you sure? Bio patterns don't not see the society they created is a
living Giant; and the U.S.A. brought forward the idea of freedom (initially
mainly to break loose from Europe ), without suspecting that the same idea
one day would have been able to cause the Vietnam defeat. So I can argue
that if a fifth level will come, maybe we are not still able to see it. And
evolution is slow: maybe it will happen in 5000 A.D.!

> But the main MOQ tenet is that DQ never rests and will
> try to break loose from its latest static latch, and use it for its
> own purpose: as its own servant/material. It is fully possible
> to break loose from the SOM-Intellect; the subject/object metaphysics
> is then stripped of its ALL THERE IS epaulettes and degraded into
> subject/object logic or SO-intelligence: a high value but not
> REALITY itself!
>
> To break from SOm's prison is to me the enormous potential of
> the MOQ that - a decade after LILA's publication - still gives
> me the thrills, and why I am so Jesuitic in my exorcism of the MIND
> interpretation of Intellect. Something that turns it into a trite
> spiritual theory. To prove that everything is (in the) mind - or
> that language is IT ALL - is child's play if you accept the
> mind/matter metaphysics in the first place.
>

Yes, MOQ has the potential you are talking about. But also Plato's and
Aristotle's thought was able to surpass all what were: the age of
Pythagoras, Parmenides, Heraclitus... and the same happened with Kant, I
guess.

However, we are on the same side, I think; SOLAQI or not SOLAQI we all agree
that MOQ is a new way to explain the world, and maybe will be able to change
the story of human thought.

PEACE!

MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org



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