Re: MD Consciousness/Awareness/the property market in London

From: elephant (
Date: Sun May 06 2001 - 12:46:47 BST

A Proper question Platt. I should say that there is a tiny bit of both:
testimony of others (Simone Weil, Iris Murdoch, Buddhism, even Pirsig), and
'personal' experience. Remember: all that this personal experience needs to
amount to is the realisation that subjects and objects are not the first
cut. I should say that this is pretty much co-determinate with ceasing to
be selfish, and one can test (in ones own case) howmuch one has translated
an intellectual insight into a heartfelf certainty by just this fact.

Or so it seems to me.


> From: "Platt Holden" <>
> Reply-To:
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:46:03 -0400
> To:
> Subject: RE: MD Consciousness/Awareness/the property market in London
> Hi Marty, Elephant, All:
>> Elephant said:
>> It is true that in so far as we transcend personality we cease to have
>> distinct *goals*, private fantasies, self-serving histories e.g... But a
>> man who has transcended personality and become both enlightened and
>> compassionate (for the two are one) does not thereby destroy the
>> individuation of his consciousness. It is *his* consciousness which is
>> enlightened, it is *he* who is compassionate, it is *other souls* to whom he
>> is compassionate. Do you follow?
> Marty:
>> Me: First of all, I don't see enlightenment and compassion as the
> same
>> thing; I see it as enlightenment LEADING TO compassion, for once you see
>> reality as it is, compassion is the only thing that makes sense.
>> I don't see it as "his' compassion or 'his' enlightenment, it is simply
>> compassion and enlightenment. Where is the 'his'? If I help someone who
>> needs it, the help I give is dynamic quality. I may try to describe it and
>> call it 'compassion', but the act itself is simply dynamic quality in
>> action. I don't see the 'he' behind it, other than the static image. There
>> is only the experience, the quality itself. So I guess I don't follow.
> Am I to assume that both you gentlemen have been enlightened and
> thus can claim from personal experience of the relationship between
> enlightenment and compassion? Or, is the relationship something you
> have gleaned from the testimony of others? I do not find it in the MOQ.
> Platt
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