You raise a very important point! "> experience = taste of the food (which
the menu does have an effect;we do
> indirectly experience the menu)"
This is a way of stating my phrase: People shape, and are shaped by, ideas.
You are right in saying our experience of tasting the food is affected by
our reading and believing in the menu.
But: "> I don't know whether "raw" data of experience is possible? "
Since all we have is our experience of eating the food, which is duly noted,
affected by our reading the menu, then that is as close as we can come to
the rawness of the data. The importance is that we understand ourselves.
We study how we make maps, the tools we use to make maps, how we process the
data of experience, etc. By studying all of that we can try to ascertain
how we have shaped the data.
We can only try and hold onto uncertainty and doubt. Believing too much
in our own certainty generally results in our mis-understanding of the
experience and mis-understanding what others are saying and failing to learn
from others perspectives and points of view. Many maps means many map
Have you heard the one about what happens when two Jewish map makers get
together? They make 3 maps!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erin Noonan" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: MD Stuck with Map/Territory?
> PLATT: Interesting that Pirsig refers to the MOQ, and by implication any
> >metaphysics, as a "system of understanding." Scott seems to argue
> >that there's no difference between systems of understanding and the
> >raw data of experience:
> GARY: maps always = menus
> territory always = food.
> The MOQ is a menu and not the food!
> We eat the food and not the menu. We experience Quality, we do not
> experience the menu.
> metaphysics = menu
> quality = food
> experience = taste of the food (which the menu does have an effect;we do
> indirectly experience the menu)
> I don't know whether "raw" data of experience is possible?
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