Re: MD Stuck with Map/Territory?

From: Gary Jaron (
Date: Wed Sep 04 2002 - 02:04:00 BST

Hi Sam,
Try this analogy to use with the map/territory
analogy, it is noted by Pirsig in chap 5 of Lila, it
is the restaurant analogy. [Platt gets the prize for
sending us all a post that reminded us all about this
great analogy.]
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they hand you a
30,000 page menu and no food." [Roughly what Pirsig

The idea is that food=Quality=Territory
menu=maps[a model, a theory, a hypothesis, a concept,
etc. something made by humans to try and understand
&/or describe reality.]

We experience the territory/food. We try to
understand the territory by making maps/menus.
all human products from the q-Intellectual level are
The Quality event is the eating/encountering the food.

Hope that helps,
--- Elizaphanian <>
> Hello all,
> One thought on this:
> > The point is that no map is equal to the
> territory. Any and all maps are
> > never 100% equivalent to the territory. Maps are
> always less than the
> > territory. [The territory is Quality.] Hence
> Pirisg's books can not be
> > Quality! Quality is non-verbal, pre-verbal and
> beyond verbal. All our
> > thoughts and writings are words, are maps.
> It seems to me that it should be possible to
> distinguish between maps of
> things which are inherently non-intellectual (by
> which I mean largely things
> at the organic and inorganic levels) and maps of
> things which are
> intellectual. In the former the map has something
> non-intellectual to
> correspond to, mediated by the intellectual
> understanding, and so it would
> be true to me to say the map is not the territory.
> Yet in understanding
> conceptual systems, eg the MoQ, it seems to me that
> all that is being mapped
> is itself intellectual, and that therefore, in a
> very straightforward sense,
> the map IS the territory. Perhaps I'm missing
> something obvious.
> Sam
> "If what we do now makes no difference in the end
> then all the seriousness
> of life is done away with" - Wittgenstein
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