Re: MD Has Quality been divided?

From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Thu Nov 14 2002 - 05:59:33 GMT

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    Steve, Erin,

    Thought I'd jump in to give my own view on the sq/DQ relation (which I've
    given before, so apologies to those who have already seen it.)

    I consider it an example of what needs to be approached with the logic of
    contradictory identity (the phrase comes from Nishida Kitaro). This applies
    when you've got two terms which completely depend on each other but which
    also completely contradict each other. Another example is the pair of terms
    'continuity' and 'change', when we consider them in our awareness. To be
    aware of a change in our environment there has to be something continuous.
    But if something is continuous, it doesn't change, yet our awareness has
    changed. Furthermore, we wouldn't be cognizant of the continuity unless
    there is change.

    More simply, the phrase "things change" is an oxymoron, yet things change.
    Note: I do not expect this "explanation" to be straightforwardly understood.
    If you're asking yourself at this moment "what the hell is he trying to
    say", I understand, since I don't really know what I am trying to say,
    though I'll be charitable to myself by saying that that is to be expected:
    the logic of contradictory identity is just not going to be
    "straightforward". But, I believe, nothing else can handle the paradoxes of
    ordinary awareness. (That awareness *is* paradoxical is actually the hard
    part to get. The logical of contradictory identity is merely an
    acknowledgment of that unconquerable paradoxicality, unconquerable, that is,
    short of transcendence.)

    So, how is sq/DQ an example of this? Well, it is (IMO) just a rephrasing of
    the paradox of continuity and change, but in a way draws it out even better,
    but only if one doesn't forget awareness. A pattern only is a pattern
    because we are aware of it -- we have turned a chaos of photons into sight
    of things moving in space. But we call a pattern static because we can
    perceive it and remember it -- evincing continuity. So there is something
    more than just a confusion of patterns, and that I call DQ.

    This is not, need I say, orthodox MOQ, just my own crackpottery. If nothing
    else, I hope it encourages you to see that "understanding the relation
    between sq and DQ" is a real question, and probably an unanswerable one.
    That there may not be a "right way" to make the sq/DQ distinction.

    - Scott

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Steve Peterson" <speterson@fast.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:12 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Has Quality been divided?

    > Erin says:
    > > I guess what is bothering me is that static and dynamic are adjectives
    > > of the same *thing*.
    > > I thought as the levels increase they offer more flexibility
    > > or are more dynamic no?
    > > It sounds like this to me:
    > > food = hot food + cold food
    > > and then you want to say hot and cold food are mutually
    > > exclusive?
    > > erin
    > >
    > Steve says: Yes, aren't they? I've been trying to say that hot and cold
    > are mutually exclusive. The same food can't be both hot and cold. The
    same
    > "quality" can't be both static and dynamic.
    >
    > I think I didn't understand what you were saying before but the food
    example
    > may have cleared up something for me. Hot and cold are relative terms on
    a
    > continuum. Are you thinking of static and dynamic quality as being on a
    > continuum of dynamic-ness? I think of static and dynamic as an either/or.
    > Value is either patterned or un-patterned.
    >
    > As far as the levels, I understand them as the levels of static quality.
    > They are all static. Even patterns that offer more flexibility.
    >
    > Or maybe I've been thinking of the DQ/SQ distinction in the wrong way.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
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