From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Sun Nov 17 2002 - 18:49:40 GMT
Patrick,
No, that wasn't me on cameras and such-like. I think that was the
how-much-does-culture-influence perception thread, which I didn't take part
in.
By the way, I'm not fully enamored of the TV model, since it begs the
question of who is wathcing the TV. I prefer the metronome model (as
mentioned in my post to Matt, if it came through this time), that the brain
serves to keep the senses and body in general in spatio-temporal
synchronization. But mainly I'm against computer models of any kind, formal
or connectionist, that assume that everything comes out of its activity.
- Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick van den Berg" <cirandar@yahoo.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: MD Individuality
> Hey Scott!
>
> --- Scott R <jse885@spinn.net> wrote:
>
> > Do you know of any experiment that distinguishes between a TV model of
> > the
> > brain (that is, that the brain organizes awareness) over a computer
> > model
> > (that the brain originates awareness)?
>
>
> Hey! never heard of the 'tv model' but it sounds interesting! Was it you
> by the way who eleborated quite a bit on a metaphor with camera's,
> screens and all, some months back?
>
> Greetings, Patrick.
>
>
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Maher" <jozabad2001@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 5:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: MD Individuality
> >
> >
> > > Hi Patrick,
> > >
> > > YOU WROTE:
> > > > With all due respect, aren't the neural events we
> > > > can 'see' in the
> > > > laboratory totally different things than our
> > > > cognitions? To me they are
> > > > as irreduciable to each other as wood is to marmer.
> > > > They're simply two
> > > > different things. They have no obvious relationship
> > > > as between 'sound
> > > > and grooves'. If you think there is, show me!
> > >
> > > With equal respect, they are not totally different
> > > things and they do have an obvious relationship.
> > > Indeed if one maintains otherwise then one is simply
> > > being blind to cognitive neuroscience:
> > >
> > > ". . . in 1880 only the rudiments of neural
> > > functioning were understood, and a reasonable person
> > > could have doubted that all experience arises from
> > > quivering nerve tails. But no longer. . . . The
> > > evidence is overwhelming that every aspect of our
> > > mental lives depends entirely on physiological events
> > > in the tissues of the brain."
> > > (Stephen Pinker - The Blank Slate - 2002 - BCA - pg
> > > 41)
> > >
> > > "Every emotion and thought gives off physical signals
> > > and the new technologies for detecting them are so
> > > accurate that they can literally read a persons mind
> > > and tell a neuroscientist whether the person is
> > > imagining a place or a face."
> > > (Ibid pg42)
> > >
> > > This is not a matter of faith, it is scientific fact
> > > reproduced in experiment after experiment and attested
> > > to in peer reviewed journals.
> > >
> > > Most neuroscientists I have looked at would not agree
> > > with your description of their findings. Worse, your
> > > out of hand dismissal of monist understandings (simply
> > > calling them 'word games' is not an argument BTW)
> > > makes it almost pointless to give you contemporary
> > > non-Cartesian philosophers (of which there are
> > > dozens)simply because you have already decided that
> > > they are closet dualists. But, being one who prefers
> > > science to philosophy I would suggest Pinker as a
> > > start.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
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