From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 24 2002 - 02:30:30 GMT
DMB had asked:
'Why can't Lila be a person that is no part of intellectual values?'
Wim answered:
Because she has/is/participates in 'mind'. She collects and manipulates
symbols.
One example: she uses her doll as symbol of her lost (murdered?) child. She
even loses herself at times in that self-created symbolic world.
Similarly, Sam said:
In the book, the character Lila is presented as being able to read, and to
disagree with Phaedrus about the correct application of a concept. I'm
thinking of the disagreement about the 'Jungle Queen' - Lila knows the words
of the pamphlet 'by heart' - it isn't specifically spelt out, but the
implication is reasonably clear that she can read; and then later she
criticises Phaedrus because 'He doesn't even know what a hustler is'. Now,
whether Lila is correct to make that judgement or not is irrelevant - the
point is that she is engaging in definitional dialectic.
DMB says:
Definitional dialectic? Oh, please. You can put that duck in a tuxedo, but
its still just a duck.
OK, let me see if I get you. Lila can talk and words are symbols so Lila is
intellectual. I can see why you might come to this conclusion. But I think
you're both relying on that one quote far too much. We have to see it in the
full context of what he's saying and balance it with the many things he
said. For example, Pirsig also describes both the social and intellectual
levels as "subjective" or "mental". This means that the "mind" can be both.
Recall the idea that language is a social level thing and that all our
intellectual constructs are derived from this older part of the mind. This
adds up to the conclusion that simple language is not the same as the
intellect's capacity to engage in "the manipulation of symbols". And I think
it would be a huge mistake to assume anyone with language skills is
intellectual. That concept would erase the distinction between the two
levels AND it would mean that every person on Earth is intellecual, since
all humans can talk. (Except for a few tragic exceptions, but even Helen
Keller learned to communicate.) Consider also the description Pirsig gave us
about his characters. He says flat out that intellectually she's nowhere.
And the fact that she's memorized the JUNGLE QUEEN pamphlet only shows that
Lila doesn't really even know what's good. She become all excited about a
tacky little tourist trap that anyone sensible person would avoid like the
Plague. He even paints Rigel as something less than an intellectual, and he
graduated from law school! He's a respectable, responsible, intelligent man
who has read many books and probably done his share of writing, but he's
still used to portray a person dominated by social values.
Thanks,
DMB
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Nov 24 2002 - 02:30:38 GMT