RE: MD Can Only Humans Respond to DQ?

From: Monkeys' tail or (
Date: Tue Dec 03 2002 - 13:07:43 GMT

  • Next message: Mari: "Re: MD Can Only Humans Respond to DQ?"

    > >PIRSIG:Even the idea of insanity as "possession by the
    > >>Devil" can be explained by the Metaphysics of Quality as a lower
    > >>pattern, "the Devil," trying to overcome a higher pattern of conformity
    > >>cultural belief.
    > >
    > >ERIN: Eh Glenn, a couple of quotes marks can go a long way
    > >can't they?  Let's not try and remove them so we can fit
    > >what Pirsig's says to what we believe.;-P
    > >Just wondering is there in the archives a
    > >comparison/contrast of Pirsig's "insanity" (looky
    > >at the quotes Glenn) and Lila's "insanity".
    >You say these "quotes marks can go a long way", and then don't
    >say why. How Pirsig of you. It seems to me that Pirsig is saying
    >the Devil is a biological pattern simply so he can win a point, a
    >point that is undeserved. He wants to use the moral taxonomy to
    >claim (with certitude) that belief in "possession by the Devil" is
    >immoral compared to cultural norms. To do this he must put "the
    >Devil" in a lower level. So he does. He provides no justification
    >for this. How is the Devil a biological pattern? How is "possession
    >by the Devil" a biological pattern? There are modern theories that
    >say insanity is biologically based, but these do not involve the
    >devil or contain notions that the insane are possessed by them.

    Hi Glenn, Erin, all

    the devil is not a biological pattern, it can't be, because the devil only
    exists on the subject side of the MOQ. It is a cultural instrument to
    protect a social level construction, namely religion, from the thread of
    biology. If one is <possesed by the devil>, you could say that he or she
    gives in to certain biological urges that undermine society or a religious
    society. But this is still too narrow imo, the devil is used for more than
    to protect society from biology, also the devil is used to protect society
    from Intellect. The same goes for insanity, some forms of insanity have
    their roots on the biological level, say missing some neuronal correlations.
    So this is a clashing of biological pov versus social pov. Some forms of
    insanity have their roots in relation of dominating social patterns (latched
    by imitation and habit) in comparison to the intellectual level. For sure a
    lot of philosophers and scientists were marked as basket-cases. Society
    cannot recognise intellectual insanity and therefore throws them in the same
    dungeon as the biologically insane. (


    PS:maybe this is all to black and white, I am not a psychiatrist or
    neuroscientist but maybe biological divergence in neuronal correlation can
    lead to great insights as well

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