RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists (all of society's ills)

From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Sat Dec 28 2002 - 22:40:34 GMT

  • Next message: Matt the Enraged Endorphin: "Re: MD re: quality decisions"

    DMB, Steve,

    DMB said:
    Here Steve is essentially putting the idea
    that "man does not live by bread alone" into his own words. Matt, apparently
    speaking as Satan's attorney, makes the opposite case. ;-)

    Matt:
    Rather then quote much of my last few posts, I'll simply suggest you read
    them again, keeping in mind that I've never denied that "man does not live
    by bread alone." As I see it, the two sides drawn aren't arguing about
    whether there is or isn't a "spiritual crisis" or whether, pace Steve,
    there is or isn't poverty and cruelty. We are arguing about what the best
    way to alleviate poverty and cruelty is. I'm suggesting that until people
    have enough of the material necessities of life, they won't have the time
    to seek "justice and compassion." Kids in the ghettos don't have time to
    be compassionate about other people and go to school and behave because
    violence is everywhere around them. It is largely a jungle in the ghettos
    and these kids join gangs and participate in gang violence to survive.
    Telling them to simply make "Quality decisions," to just "rise above" the
    cycle of violence is not going to help. We've been telling them that for
    years. Do people break free of the poverty cycle? Certainly, but I don't
    think the best way to help more people, to increase the numbers of people
    breaking free, is to raise the volume of our voices when we say, "Seek
    justice. Make Quality decisions. Lead a good life. etc."

    I agree that Pirsig says liberal ideologies are more moral then others. I
    agree with that, too. But how do we raise people out of ignorance? I
    would suggest education. People in the ghettos aren't the only people
    receiving poor educations. If we want to increase the education of our
    society, the way to do it is to put more MONEY into education. If
    educators were paid more, it would attract better teachers and it would
    alleviate some of the worries and bitterness of the current teachers. They
    would feel appreciated. I agree that the voters of America need to wake up
    and take stock of the direction of this country. But I follow Rorty in
    thinking that the way this is going to be accomplished is by top-down
    initiatives because those at the top are the ones with the time and energy.
     I think if we take care of some of our economic ills, we can then begin to
    take care of some of our spiritual ones.

    Matt

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