From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Wed Sep 08 2004 - 23:26:21 BST
Joe,
[joe:] i agree with all evolution. I don’t agree in awareness. The physics of metaphysics is obscure and I do not know if I agree with 3, 4.
[Scott:] I see (3) (and therefore 4) as following logically from (1). See thenext point.
[joe:] My point of doubt! IMO the mystical is a bridge between physical and metaphysical. Working with universals is awareness, a product of evolution which involves evolution as motivation (morality). I accept intellect (unfinished s/o), existence, purpose, gravity.
[Scott:] What is your basis for believing that "awareness [is] a product of evolution"? That is a belief which my argument is an attempt to subvert. If SQ are universals, then creation of new SQ is what we call intellect, which involves awareness. The alternative to this is to assume that all change until there were humans was mechanical.
[joe:] Universals are held in memory. For an indexing system to be moral, universals in memory have unfinished s/o as patterns, existence as patterns, purpose as patterns, gravity as patterns. 3 and 4 would not be necessary conclusions as DQ might also be social-in-use (existence) or organic-in-use (purpose) or inorganic-in-use (gravity). IMO to ascribe a pattern to DQ without identifying the mystical connection is somewhat defining DQ in a degenerate-mystical way.
[Scott:] Are universals held in memory? If one believes in the mind-brain identity hypothesis, they must be, but I reject that hypothesis (for other reasons, namely that to be aware of a pattern requires being non-spatio-temporal).
I don't follow the rest of this, in particular, what you mean by a "mystical connection".
- Scott
[Scott previous:]
1. Are static patterns of value universals or particulars? Answer: They must be universals, as implied by the word "pattern". A particular, once it exists, cannot be changed. Only the rules for producing particulars can be changed, and so it is only as universals that there is value for the present and future (the particular does serve to exemplify the universal, however) .
2. DQ works with existing SQ to produce new SQ. (MOQ thesis).
3. The word for working with universals to produce new universals is intellect, as it is a matter of evaluating existing universals (concepts, rules) by imagining the consequences of choosing among possibilities, and making the choice.
4. Therefore, DQ is intellect-in-use, and all SQ are static intellectual patterns of value (which may be subdivided into inorganic, biological, social, and purely intellectual (mathematics, for example) static intellectual patterns of value. This does not imply that my thought of, say, plant growth is plant growth. It does suggest that my thought of plant growth is a pale reflection of the thought that grows plants).
5. Therefore, Quality is Intellect (while not ceasing to be Quality).
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