From: Chuck Roghair (ctr@pacificpartssales.com)
Date: Wed Oct 13 2004 - 20:56:12 BST
<with a nod to Marsha>
"I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me."
-John Lennon
Best,
C.
On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:36 AM, David Morey wrote:
> What shall we have on our T-shirts?
>
> DM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: MD On Faith
>
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> On 12 Oct 2004 at 18:03, David Morey wrote:
>> Seems clear to me that if some aspects of experience
>> are not suitable for scientific explanation this is very interesting
>> it is also exactly what Pirsig says of DQ. Also without DQ we cannot
>> explain how SQ has evolved.
>>
>>
>> msh says:
>> Yes, as my friend Platt likes to remind me, there's a lot more to
>> life than what is dreamt of in science's valueless philosophy. Art
>> is the most immediate example, especially, for me, music and
>> literature. Beauty in general. Love. In fact, I think if life were
>> nothing more than 70 plus years of running around with calculators
>> and yardsticks, no one would stick around long enough to do any
>> science anyway.
>>
>> That's why I love the MOQ. I think we need to get some T-Shirts
>> printed up.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mark
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 1:34 AM
>> Subject: RE: MD On Faith
>>
>>
>>> On 11 Oct 2004 at 18:02, Platt Holden wrote:
>>> As Scott as pointed out several times, orthodox theology has
>> evolved
>>> over the years in light of new knowledge. But, it's faith in a
>>> spiritual presence hasn't changed from the beginning. Similarly,
>>> science has evolved in the light of new knowledge. But it's faith
>> in
>>> naturalism hasn't changed from the beginning. It will not allow an
>>> unmeasurable creative power, like DQ, into it's explanations.
>>>
>>> msh says:
>>> Science can't make room for anything unmeasurable or otherwise
>>> physically undetectable; if it did it wouldn't be science. It's
>>> simply wrong to say that science denies God; Science has nothing to
>>> say about God except, insofar as the concept has any meaning at
>> all,
>>> there is no scientific basis for believing in a supreme being of
>> any
>>> kind. This doesn't mean that one, or more, doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> As long as religion insists that God is unmeasurable, the two
>> realms
>>> of thought will be concerned with mutually exclusive domains. The
>>> only time religion and science come into conflict is when religious
>>> people seek for their beliefs the imprimatur of science (or math or
>>> logic). The interesting social and psychological question, at that
>>> point, is why they desire this stamp of approval.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> msh
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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