RE: MD Moral values and the election

From: Scott Roberts (
Date: Sun Nov 14 2004 - 18:57:07 GMT

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    [Scott Prev:] Are you unaware that millions of American Christians dislike Bush as much as you do, support gay rights, are against the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act, etc. etc.? Would it have been so hard to insert a qualifier in your statement, such as "fundamentalist" or "right-wing"?

    dmb says: What, "Christo-fascism" doesn't cover it well enough for you? And if there is an actual group of christians that can be certainly identified as liberal and intellectual, I'm not aware of it. I mean, where are these christians hiding? Show me.

    [Scott:] You moved the goal posts. Since you are convinced that 'faith' implies 'anti-intellectual' I don't see how I can show you. All I can do as far as 'intellectual' is list authors: Peter Berger (who I quoted earlier), Andrew Greeley, David Tracy, etc., etc. and wonder if someday you might look into this question for yourself rather than basing it on prejudice.

    As for liberal (in the American sense), some 90% of Americans believe in God, but only 51% of the electorate voted for Bush. You can do the arithmetic. Specifically, did you not notice that the Episcopal church installed an openly gay bishop? Remember the Berrigan brothers? That the civil rights movement was led by the Reverend Martin Luther King and had huge support from Christians, that the Sanctuary movement to protect Salvadorans and others that the government wanted to deport during the 80's was a Christian group, that the group that filed the lawsuits against the Reagan administration over Iran-Contra was called The Christic Institute? The following is from

     The Christic Institute unites Christians, Jews and other religious Americans
    on an effective and practical platform for political change. Among our team of
    forty professionals and our network of 70,000 supporters nationwide are the
    followers of many faiths--including Roman Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans,
    Unitarian Universalists, Jews, New Agers and the adherents of traditional
    Native American religion. We also count among our supporters and coworkers
    Americans who identify with no religious faith, but share our values of
    compassion and justice."

    Given your passion for liberal causes it is unbelievable that you aren't aware of those who should be your allies, but instead you would prefer to be "saved" from them.

    - Scott

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