From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Mon Dec 06 2004 - 01:09:10 GMT
DMB,
> Scott said:
> ...In Pirsig, DQ is treated as a force from outside of ourselves to which
we
> are to respond, and to which we are to transcend. ...This does not mean
that
> Pirsig is "all wrong". It just means that the MOQ as it is now is
inadequate
> as a basis for a discussion of the self. ...If you want to bolster your
> case, show me something from the MOQ that sounds like 'self-identity of
> absolute contradictories', in particular as a characterization of the
self.
>
> dmb replies:
> DQ is a force outside ourselves? NO! As Pirsig says, in the quote posted
> repeatedly in recent weeks, DQ is the big Self and SQ is the small self.
Is
> that contradictory enough for you, bonehead? That'll be your new
nick-name.
>
> Just kidding. I'm actually grateful that you at least tried. But I'm still
> convinced that you have a serious reading comprehension problem...
>
> Lila's Child, Annotation 29:
> "The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a "self" that is
> independent of inorganic, biological, social or intellectual patterns.
There
> is no "self" that contains these patterns. These patterns contain the
self.
> This denial agrees with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge.
> In Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self." Small self is
the
> patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
Where's the identity? I see nothing of the form: Big self (or DQ) is not
other than small self (or SQ), small self is not other than big self. Where
is a formulation like: the self is the contradictory identity of DQ and SQ?
Instead, the MOQ says that the self is just SQ, but then there is also this
big self, which is DQ.
You keep making your points by dishing out Mysticism 101 stuff. The
"big/small self" distinction is ok to start with, but on further critique
is found wanting. Also, you seem to believe that there is but one
philosophical mysticism. A first exploration of Buddhism will find this
kind of "big self/small self" and "pure experience" talk. It's still too
dualistic. A deeper one will find something more like the later Nishida.
- Scott
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