From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue Jan 18 2005 - 18:10:36 GMT
On 10 January 2005 2:04 AM Ian writes to DMB
DMB
You seem to be saying
Vague is bad
(Logically precise) is good ?
Not sure that is true.
Less is often more.
Before we destroy it with the analytic knife, I'd like to get at least some
vague idea of what mysticism means. I still have no clue.
Ian
Hi Ian, DMB, and all,
Hi Ian, Thank You!! IMO How something is said is more important than what is
said? I am thinking of logical speech, analogy, and metaphor. Plain speech
accepts what is observed and experienced. "There are things which you have
said to me which I do not like. They were not sweet like sugar, but bitter
like gourds." Chief Ten Bears, Lila Chapter 3.
Analogy accepts the discontinuity of forms, e.g., evolution! Gravity is
often an analogue for different forces. Metaphor accepts a faith in
awareness in a model of different moral levels. " I was born on the prairie
where the wind blew free, and there was nothing to break the light of the
sun." ibid. The inorganic-organic level model of speech is logical. "I want
to die there, and not within walls." ibid.
IMO The social level model of speech is metaphor, e.g., the roles in a
family. No one is quite sure apart from organic generation what the roles of
father, mother, child etc. mean. Yet social order occurs from an acceptance
of roles. Metaphor is in the social order. He/she is leader! An order is
observed. When the metaphor of order is used in the intellectual level as a
metaphysical tool it becomes dogma. The creation of awareness is seen as a
higher level than order. Gravity is seen as a lower level than order.
Feeding is seen as a higher level than gravity, but lower than order. IMO
This is morality! The assignment of guilt for an action is measured in the
awareness level of the individual. The proof of awareness is action, "by
their fruits you will know them." Anarchy in Iraq comes from a destruction
of an established social order.
IMO If I propose existing levels like in evolution I use a social level
base. IMO order is the social level. The inorganic, organic, social,
intellectual levels in the MOQ are metaphors of DQ. There is no inorganic,
organic, intellectual supreme leader. The periodic table of elements is an
analogy to the social order. It would seem that an affect on awareness would
be a more reasonable base for a periodic table of elements.
When metaphor and analogy are combined they evolve, the moral levels occur.
'Supreme' has meaning only in the social level order in the same way the
order family, city, king has meaning. Yet the intellectual level is the
highest.
IMO Analogy is used to express the mystical acceptance of the levels. The
term 'like' seems to emphasize the acceptance of different levels. It is
analogy to use as an explanation of the causes of WW I & II, the struggle
between the intellectual and social levels. Morality is analogy in terms of
DQ. However, as analogies, the inorganic, organic, social, and intellectual
levels are moral levels of quality everyone accepts, as they accept the
analogy of evolution into moral levels.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Glendinning" < >
To: < >
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
> DMB
>
> You seem to be saying
> Vague is bad
> (Logically precise) is good ?
> Not sure that is true.
> Less is often more.
>
> Before we destroy it with the analytic knife, I'd like to get at least
> some
> vague idea of what mysticism means. I still have no clue.
>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Buchanan" < >
> To: < >
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:18 AM
> Subject: RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
>
>
>>
>> Phaedrus Wolff asked:
>> If intuition is not DQ, then what is it?
>>
>> dmb replies:
>> Instinct. A hunch. A feeling. Its a vague word and should be avoided by
>> philosophers for that reason, especially if we are trying to distinguish
>> instincts and feelings from a mystical experience.
>>
>> Wolff:
>> Just roll a joint instead. Maybe you could join me. It seems at times you
>> could use one. ...Burn one and get back to me.
>>
>> dmb replies:
>> Are you saying I should relax? Well, OK, but it doesn't matter how
>> stress-free I am or how stoned I am, I'll still disagree. Sorry, but I
>> did
>> promise as much when you first arrived. Remember?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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>
>
>
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