From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jan 25 2005 - 00:51:07 GMT
Hi Nick, Gav,
Nick, you raise a most interesting philosophical question, namely, "How do
we know what's a con and what isn't?" Pirsig says you can tell like you
can tell which paintings in a gallery are the good ones. Here's what he
says:
"But if Quality or excellence is seen as the ultimate reality then it
becomes possible for more than one set of truths to exist. Then one
doesn't seek the absolute "Truth." One seeks instead the highest quality
intellectual explanation of things with the knowledge that if the past is
any guide to the future this explanation must be taken provisionally; as
useful until something better comes along. One can then examine
intellectual realities the same way he examines paintings in an art
gallery, not to find which one is the "real" painting, but simply to enjoy
and keep those that are of value." (Lila, 8)
My intellect tells me democracy is a better painting in the gallery of
government organizations that the other ones, and that the republic
painting is even better..
So what do you think of Pirsig's gallery test against being conned?
Platt
Nick wrote:
> We have been conned? So for the longest time we have been told something
> that isn't true and we have all come to believe it. We believe that in
> democracy and all that but it isn't true. How do we know it's true? Because
> we are told it's true.
>
> So how do we know it's not true? How can we believe that democracy is all a
> con simply by trusting what you say? What makes us so sure you're not
> trying to con us?
>
> It's not that I don't believe you or at least suspect the truth in what you
> say; it's just that you offer no more proof that democracy is a con than
> they offer to prove democracy isn't a con.
>
> I'm very interested. Please go on.
Gav wrote:
> MD newsflash: it's all a con
>
> with respect guys,
>
> it amazes me no end how so many of you can spend so
> many hours argiung about left/right wing shit: the
> relative merits of different politics/policies etc
> when, once you dig down a bit, you find that it is all
> a con and pretty much always has been.
>
> i guess pirsig was unaware of this when he wrote his
> books (i dunno if he is now). and i think that if he
> had known he may not have had to lose it to free
> himself.
>
> an example:
> in the uk there are three political parties: the
> labour party, the conservatives and the liberal
> democrats. all three parties are headed by members of
> the bilderberg group: an extremely shady rich and
> powerful club that meets regularly at bilderberg
> (which is in belgium i think). no matter who gets in
> in you are being ruled by the same people with the
> same agenda.
>
> the logos of these three parties are the rose
> (labour), the lighted torch (conservatives), and the
> dove (liberal democrats). all these symbols have
> esoteric meanings related to the lineage of power
> across the centuries. for example the lighted torch (a
> la the statue of liberty) refers to 'illumination' or
> the 'illuminated ones'. this is a freemasonic
> reference: they see themselves (at the highest levels)
> as illuminated because they are privy to ancient and
> esoteric knowledge withheld from the general public.
>
> the statue of liberty was a gift from parisien
> freemasons to american freemasons. it has nothing to
> do with democracy and freedom, in fact it is about the
> opposite. you have to laugh: we have been conned,
> elegantly, for bloody ages.
>
> anyway the good news (and bad) is that everything is
> changing. exactly how...????? my feeling at the moment
> is that we are going through an evolutionary
> bottleneck: those that adapt (tune in) survive; those
> that remain stuck in obsolete realities....
>
> don't get stuck.
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