Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic

From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Jan 31 2005 - 02:31:33 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Roberts: "Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic"

    On 29 January 2005 Scott writes to All interested,

    [Scott ] The MOQ differs from Kant in that it does not assume that the
    conceptual structure is fixed and necessary, but keeps the idea that it is
    conceptual structure (static intellectual patterns of value) that cuts us
    off from
    reality (DQ). The MOQ claim that DQ is "pre-intellectual" is a Kantian
    pattern. The main conceptual structure that produces non-real appearances is
    the subject/object form.

    Hi Scott and all,

    I see nothing wrong in the "claim that DQ is 'pre-intellectual' is a Kantian
    pattern". IMO it is an analogy pointing to mystical experience as the main
    analogue.

    IMO Pragmatism depends on mystical experience-analogy for reasonableness.
    Evolution is tied to pragmatism. I marvel at Pirsig seeing four levels in
    evolution. I marvel at Gurdjieff stating that one is composed of three
    forces. I want to say that the four levels, inorganic, organic, social,
    intellectual are 'pre-intellectual' Pirsigean patterns?

    IMO logical positivism is the pattern using inorganic and organic as the
    evolutionary analogue.

    Metaphorical existentialism is the pattern using the social level as the
    evolutionary analogue.

    Analogical pragmatism is the pattern using the intellectual level as the
    evolutionary analogue.

    I have no idea what Ham Priday is using as the analogue 'essentialism'.

    Joe

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@localnet.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:02 AM
    Subject: Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic

    > All interested,
    >
    > My last post in the "Them pesky pragmatists" got kind of mixed up at the
    > end, so I want to try to clarify it a bit, but since the clarification
    > brings in the Kantian problematic, I'm putting it here.
    >
    > What I said is that mysticism, and religion in general, always contains an
    > appearance/reality distinction in the form of recognizing our current
    > state
    > as one of ignorance or illusion, of being out of touch with Ultimate
    > Reality. Plato's A/R distinction can be seen in this way, as the parable
    > of
    > the cave shows. A philosophy of mysticism will attempt to analyze the
    > nature
    > of the illusion, which means saying something about the Reality..
    >
    > Kant's A/R distinction is different. He says that there is a reality which
    > our conceptual structure turns into appearances, and that we can never
    > know
    > what that reality is in itself. He also says that that conceptual
    > structure
    > is fixed and necessary, the Categories, e.g., of space, time, causality,
    > etc.
    >
    > The MOQ differs from Kant in that it does not assume that the conceptual
    > structure is fixed and necessary, but keeps the idea that it is conceptual
    > structure (static intellectual patterns of value) that cuts us off from
    > reality (DQ). The MOQ claim that DQ is "pre-intellectual" is a Kantian
    > pattern. The main conceptual structure that produces non-real appearances
    > is
    > the subject/object form.
    >
    > Hence the MOQ includes both types of A/R distinction, the Kantian and the
    > mystical. That is, it advocates a mystical program of putting intellectual
    > SPOV to sleep in order to experience reality. So in this means of getting
    > back into touch with reality, it also reinforces the Kantian duality
    > between the conceptual and reality. As James, and most philosophies of
    > mysticism have done since Kant.
    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
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