Re: MD Matt's Critique of the SOL.

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@localnet.com)
Date: Mon Jun 13 2005 - 15:56:41 BST

  • Next message: Allen Barrows: "Re: MD Attitude About Reality"

    Bo,

    Bo said:
    "Theory" sounds a bit innocent, no-one has challenged SOM --
    identified a SOM - before Pirsig. Even Kant started with S/O
    premises and ended with them. I don't try to outwrite you in
    philosophy history, but if called upon ;-)

    Scott:
    Coleridge and Hegel come to mind.

    Matt said:
    > After all, what
    > is a theory but a string of words and anybody can look into a
    > dictionary and find that words contain themselves in an innocuous
    > sense that we can handle.

    Bo replied:
    Watch out. Don't come too near the language black hole!

    Scott:
    It is because Pirsig avoids the dilemmas of language that his philosophy is
    inadequate. One must dive into language, equipped with the logic of
    contradictory identity.

    Matt said:
    > It is that particular kind of intellectual
    > pattern that principally refers to other intellectual patterns, that
    > kind of pattern we call "philosophy." But in your SOL-MoQ, the
    > SOL-MoQ itself seems to come to replace reality. But that doesn't
    > seem to make sense except as a kind of idealism. Not only that, but
    > it should remind us of Pirsig's snide comment about being handed a
    > menu without any food.

    Bo replied:
    Well, to repeat myself SOM was once taken for granted (and still
    is by 99,99% of the Western population) Can you Matt show me
    anyone referring to a subject/object metaphysics , I mean in the
    sense of it having an origin and maybe a exit?

    Scott:
    Barfield's discussion of the decline of original participation and the goal
    of final participation is just that (origin and exit).

    Bo continued:
    There were
    certainly plenty thinkers who lamented the enigma; why reality
    was thus divided; why we are locked inside our mind with no
    hope of knowing the "Ding an Sich", but not putting the bell on
    the cat like Pirsig did.

    Scott:
    Pirsig's belling of the cat fails, due to his failure to come to grips with
    language and intellect. Barfield succeeds.

    - Scott

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