From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Tue Jun 14 2005 - 11:20:41 BST
Bo, David, Matt
Bo lamented:---
--- If I had been smart I would have left it to Matt to explain because
--- from that direction came the ever first understanding of the SOL
--- (except for Mati Palm-Leis of old). But I am not smart ...:
Paul: And apparently you can't remember writing this......
From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Sat Aug 30 2003 - 08:13:44 BST
Hi Paul
I start here, as always we make no progress until you start to
summarize - an ability you have that I appreciate greatly.
28 Aug you wrote:
> You refer to "inside the MOQ" and a "Quality Universe" as if it were
> somewhere other than where we already are, right here, right now, all
> around and inside. I think your "Metaphysics is Reality" belief is a
> major problem.
Yes, I do. Existence have this tendency to change in accordance with
the range of view. Remember the example of a bug inside the sock?
After it being turned inside out, reality changed from a smelly confined
world to one of enormous vistas. It was the same yet changed
fundamentally.
A more real example is the cosmology of the "ancient world" (Social
Reality) The "underworld" extended forever downwards and the sky
forever upwards, then came the Copernican Revolution (Intellectual
Reality) when these things were relativized; The same "here, right
now, all around and inside" yet changed fundamentally. If this
important phenomenon that Pirsig points to is a "problem" to you ...?
> I think your logic goes:
I printed this out and brought it with me on a walk to read it in
portions. Even one's own view looks a little unfamiliar seen through
another person's eyes ....
> "If the MOQ includes "Dynamic Quality"
> and Dynamic Quality is outside of static intellectual patterns
> and the MOQ is reality itself
> then the MOQ is also outside of static intellectual patterns"
....but this is as close as it comes!!!
> This also explains why you have come up with the SOLAQI argument. You
> extend the logic above in this way..
Exactly!
> "and because I can think about the MOQ (which is outside of static
> intellectual patterns) then static intellectual patterns cannot be
> synonymous with thoughts"
Damn! This Is GOOD!
> So to keep it all intact, you reduce mind to an era of "subject-object
> thinking" and create a fifth level
Even if I have backed down on the 5th level to a rebel intellectual
pattern, this is exactly it.
> or a "Quality Universe" in which
> the MOQ is not "merely a metaphysics" but has replaced SOM as "reality
> itself", just as you think the intellectual level once replaced the
> social level as "reality itself".
GREAT!!!
> What I think you fail to see is that the metaphysical term "Dynamic
> Quality" is a STATIC INTELLECTUAL REFERENCE to reality which is
> understood by direct everyday experience WITHOUT THOUGHTS OR WORDS.
> When you understand what it refers to you don't actually need the word
> anymore.
Maybe I was dizzy from your perfect understanding of the SOLAQI,
but when it comes to this (critical) part ...hmmm. You see I'm not able
to understand that anyone can understand it as well as you do and
NOT "love" it ;-)
----------------------------------------------------
This "nobody understands it" routine is wearing a little thin Bo, don't you
think?
Regards
Paul
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