From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul 01 2005 - 14:13:29 BST
Hi Mark Maxwell,
> Spoken as one who feels a poetic unease with ownership
> without relationship. I feel very uneasy about what it
> means to be able to posses anything as one's own - i
> am uneasy even about self. How can a selfless person
> own anything?
A selfish person places a high value on freedom for himself and others. .
> An overview may begin along these lines: We, as
> relationships of sq patterns responding to, and
> migrating towards DQ, may be said to 'be'. That is
> 'who' we are - events in the event stream.
To say we are merely events in an event stream denigrates the moral value
of human beings, not only on Pirsig's scale of values, but in the Founding
Fathers vision of individual human rights .
> We may be said to 'own' that which we care about and
> cultivate a mutually enriching relationship with. So,
> Mr. Pirsig 'owns' 'his' motorcycle or boat because he
> migrates towards DQ with them and maintains them at
> their best. 'I' 'own' my guitar because i have played
> it for about 20 years and it fits 'me' like that glove
> in ZMM - we are old friends.
I also cherish my possessions (I play the guitar, too) for they grant me
freedom to do many things which I otherwise could not. Keep in mind that a
slave by definition is person denied the right to own property.
> I feel uneasy about owning anything that is simply
> regarded as mine because i am at social liberty to
> deny other people.
By owning things I don't deny others the right to own the same things.
> Those who own a great deal of land and wealth can not
> possibly form caring and mutually enriching
> relationships with every aspect of that which they
> own, because there simply isn't enough time to be that
> good with all of it.
Lots to clarify here, such as defining "caring and mutually enriching
relationships" and "good with it all."
> Mark: What i am aiming at is this: If we begin with
> the assumption that anyone can and indeed does own
> that which they can not have the time to form mutually
> enriching relationships with, then it may be there is
> a degree after which it becomes low quality to assume
> you can posses things.
> Once this degree is transcended, the best that can be
> achieved may be the social power and influence one
> gains over those who are denied. I think this relates
> to the situation you regard to be immoral Platte.
The question I would pose is: Who decides when ownership becomes low
quality?
> Mark: I am happy you find Chomsky to be of some value.
> Tobacco production, processing and proliferation by
> legal marketing strategies creates jobs and revenue.
> The fact that it kills millions of people does not
> seem to be differentiated from legal revenue
> generation and job provision by successive U.S.
> governments in the way Chomsky and children appear to
> understand.
Numbers killed by smoking pale in comparison to numbers killed by
governments. A child can tell the difference between lighting up a
cigarette and being transported in a boxcar to a concentration camp.
Finally, there are a lot of people around who want to be admired for their
selflessness, especially politicians who pride themselves on their "public
service." It's not hard to detect the contradiction and hypocrisy in their
"selfless" pose.
Best,
Platt
P.S. Thanks for correcting the name "Platte."
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