From: mark maxwell (laughingpines@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Sat Jul 02 2005 - 23:10:04 BST
Hi Mark M:
How can there be a no self without a presupposed self?
Mark 2-7-05: Hello Platt,
A direct answer to your question: We are events in the
event stream; the presupposed self is an illusion.
Platt:
Myth? Are you saying the signers of the Declaration of
Independence and the beliefs they expressed are
figments of imagination?
Mark 2-7-05:
No. I am drawing a distinction between how they are
socially valued and how they are intellectually
valued.
For example, you do not talk about concepts such as
freedom and justice, rather, you talk about a group of
dead people known as the 'founding fathers.'
Let us talk about concepts not dead people as if those
dead people where not everyday folk.
What "advances" in political theory do you have in
mind?
Mark 2-7-05:
Did i say advances in polital theory?
No. Once again you are putting words in my mouth.
Intellectual values have advanced in the last 200+
years and these have ramifications for concepts such
as self, ownership, freedom, etc.
Platt:
Are you against owning the chair you sit on, the
computer you compute on, the plate you eat on, the
shoes you walk on, the watch you tell time on,
the phone you talk on, etc., etc. etc., the common,
ordinary, everyday possessions that support your life?
Mark 2-7-05:
All these 'objects' are really events in the event
stream. That is an intellectual postulation, not a
socially accepted pattern of value.
It is with intellectual values that i am concerned
Platt, not social patterns learned through imitation.
My social conditioning tells me i am an individual who
owns things. My intellectual enquiery tells me these
things are illusions.
Platt:
Yes. That's the other side of same coin. A slave
doesn't own his own
body.
Are you against owning the property in your own person
and the work of
your person? (Of course, that would require admitting
to existence of a
"self.")
Mark 2-7-05:
All you speak of are relationships between events in
the event stream. Intellectualy speaking the socially
learned patterns are simply that: Learned through
immitating behaviour. You think you own stuff because
you are immitating those who agree with you.
Platt:
Am I correct to assume that the highest good in your
view are "caring
and
mutually enriching relationships." If so, what
political system do you
believe allows the most freedom to form such
relationships?
Mark 2-7-05:
I think this political system must begin with children
and their education Platt.
Every effort would have to be made to provide all
children with a supreme education in Quality as a
Human right. No child would be denied for any reason.
When these children grow up, they may change the
system itself for the better.
regards,
Mark
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