Re: MD Chomsky

From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Sun Jul 03 2005 - 09:19:02 BST

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    Mark --

    > ham:
    > Frankly, I haven't read much of Chomsky, but it's enough to
    > understand his position as a Leninist anarchist.
    >
    > msh:
    > Ok, then you've read enough to conclude that he's a Leninist? Please
    > provide quotes, with references, from Chomsky's thousands of
    > interviews, lectures, essays, and books, in support of your position.

    Please don't expect me to research Noam Chomsky just to answer your
    challenges, Mark. For a professor of linguistics, the man has an inflated
    opinion of his ability to analyze international affairs and a seeming
    disinterest in the subject for which he is popularly known -- Philosophy.
    Like many liberal writers whose entire career has been spent in academia,
    Chomsky has a myopic view of entrepreneurship in the free market and a
    decidedly leftist bent which, in his case, leans toward anarchy.

    The following quotations are from material I'd collected for response to
    your last posting. While I'll leave the political analysis to you, I think
    they will suffice to illustrate my point.

    Noam Chomsky on Rationality/Science
    Z Papers Special Issue, 1995

    "Several writers appear to regard Leninist-Stalinist tyranny as an
    embodiment of science and rationality. Thus 'the belief in a universal
    narrative grounded in truth has been undermined by the collapse of political
    systems that were supposed to [have] produced the New Socialist Man and the
    New Postcolonial Man.' And the 'state systems' that 'used positive
    rationality for astoundingly destructive purposes'
    were guided by 'socialist and capitalist ideologies'--a reference, it
    appears, to radically anti-socialist (Leninist) and anti-capitalist
    (state-capitalist) ideologies. Since 'scientific and technological progress
    were the watchword of socialist and capitalist ideologies,' we see that
    their error and perversity is deep, and we must abandon them, along with any
    concern for freedom, justice, human rights, democracy, and other
    'watchwords' of the secular priesthood who have perverted Enlightenment
    ideals in the interests of the masters."

    Noam Chomsky, 1970

    "The ideas of libertarian socialism, in the sense described, have been
    submerged in the industrial societies of the past half-century. The dominant
    ideologies have been those of state socialism or state capitalism (of
    increasingly militarized character in the United States, for reasons that
    are not obscure). But there has been a rekindling of interest in the past
    few years. The theses I quoted by Anton Pannekoek were taken from a recent
    pamphlet of a radical French workers' group (Informations Correspondance
    Ouvrière). The remarks by William Paul on revolutionary socialism are cited
    in a paper by Walter Kendall given at the National Conference on Workers'
    Control in Sheffield, England, in March 1969. The workers' control movement
    has become a significant force in England in the past few years. It has
    organized several conferences and has produced a substantial pamphlet
    literature, and counts among its active adherents representatives of some of
    the most important trade unions. The Amalgamated Engineering and
    Foundryworkers' Union, for example, has adopted, as official policy, the
    program of nationalization of basic industries under 'workers' control at
    all levels.' On the Continent, there are similar developments. May 1968 of
    course accelerated the growing interest in council communism and related
    ideas in France and Germany, as it did in England.

    "Given the highly conservative cast of our highly ideological society, it is
    not too surprising that the United States has been relatively untouched by
    these developments. But that too may change. The erosion of cold-war
    mythology at least makes it possible to raise these questions in fairly
    broad circles. If the present wave of repression can be beaten back, if the
    left can overcome its more suicidal tendencies and build upon what has been
    accomplished in the past decade, then the problem of how to organize
    industrial society on truly democratic lines, with democratic control in the
    workplace and in the community, should become a dominant intellectual issue
    for those who are alive to the problems of contemporary society, and, as a
    mass movement for libertarian socialism develops, speculation should proceed
    to action."

    Also this. (Despite your objection to my using "secondary opinions", this
    is the informed assessment of a book reviewer who has studied Chomsky, knows
    his history, and is well positioned to compare him with other academics in
    his field. It also includes a direct NC quote.)

    Kent Windschuttle on "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky":

    "Chomsky is the most prominent intellectual remnant of the New Left of the
    1960s. In many ways he epitomized the New Left and its hatred of 'Amerika,'
    a country he believed, through its policies both at home and abroad, had
    descended into fascism. In his most famous book of the Sixties, American
    Power and the New Mandarins, Chomsky said what America needed was 'a kind of
    denazification.'

    "Of all the major powers in the Sixties, according to Chomsky, America was
    the most reprehensible. Its principles of liberal democracy were a sham. Its
    democracy was a 'four-year dictatorship' and its economic commitment to free
    markets was merely a disguise for corporate power. Its foreign policy was
    positively evil. 'By any objective standard,' he wrote at the time, 'the
    United States has become the most aggressive power in the world, the
    greatest threat to peace, to national self-determination, and to
    international cooperation.'"

     msh:
    > You're equating atheism with nihilism. You need a better dictionary.
    > Besides, NC doesn't even refer to himself as an atheist. When
    > asked, he says something like "Well, so far, no one has been able to
    > explain to me what they mean by 'God.' So I don't even know what it
    > is I'm supposed to believe in, or not believe in."

    Yes, when it concerns philosophy, I do equate atheism with nihilism. I've
    made this
    connection before in a variety of ways. When one not only rejects the
    concept of a primary source and the value of transcendency, but asserts --
    as a philosopher -- that all such ideas are "irrational" and that he has
    "nothing to propose" in their place, this is the expression of a nihilist.

    > As for Fred Christie's putative book review, you could have saved a
    > lot of time just by going to the MOQ archives and pasting any one of
    > Platt's or Mel's unsupported Chomsky-bashing diatribes. They, and
    > now you, admit to never having read Chomsky, though all of you are
    > brimming with opinions regarding the value of his work.

    Why should I want to do that? I'm as capable of sizing up a person's
    persuasion as is Platt or Mel. If it talks like a snake and writes like a
    snake, etc. Besides, I have enough research to do to support my own thesis
    without having to gather fuel for other peoples' battles that aren't even
    focused on philosophy.

    Tell me Mark, what is there about this self-proclaimed "democratic socialist
    libertarian" who wants to "de-nazify Amerika" that appeals so much to you?
    Personally, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with him.

    Regards,
    Ham

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