Re: MD Collective consciousness

From: Erin (macavity11@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Jul 18 2005 - 17:26:56 BST

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    Ian,
     
    In the idea you refer to does it talk about whether people are becoming more specialized in modern times. Would more specialization be a moving away from a collective "mind" idea or not necessarily?
     
    Erin
     
     
    , language, etc, and widely shared
    world-views arising through them. (Memes for short.)

    Ian
    (PS when I say collective "mind" in the first clause, I am referring
    to the idea of self-conscious thought emerging from something more
    than a single biological brain. Sci-Fi for now, but not necessarily
    for long.)

    On 7/17/05, Paul Turner
    wrote:
    > Ham, Matt,
    >
    > >Somebody (Arlo?) quoted Pirsig:
    > >"These fill the collective consciousness of all communicating mankind.
    > >Every last bit of it."
    > >
    > >Ham asked:
    > >I have two questions concerning this statement:
    > >1) What does "collective consciousness" have to do with any of the
    > >"analogues" previously quoted?
    > >2) Why did Matt Kundert insist to me that he'd never seen the term and had
    > >no idea what it meant? (I guess Matt will have to answer that one.)
    > >
    > >Matt:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Pirsig's not talking about some
    > >big,
    > >ephemeral brain or think-tank that all of us pour and pull our thoughts
    > >into
    > >and out of. Pirsig's talking about books. He's talking about receiving an
    > >education. He's talking about learning the language of the historical
    > >culture we were born into. He's talking about learning the analogues upon
    > >analogues upon analogues which make up the language of our time. That's
    > >the
    > >collective consciousness that has grown and changed since the time of the
    > >creation of language. One can call it "collective" because it wasn't
    > >created by a single source. It was created by many sources over a long
    > >time. In fact, we all participate in creating it (or, rather, changing it)
    > >simply by using it (which we have no other choice but to--well, at least to
    > >remain "sane"). We can call it "collective" because our common educations
    > >in the language of our time and place is why we all think in a way enough
    > >like our fellows that we can understand each other.
    >
    > Paul: Exactly. Thanks for spelling this out, Matt. My shorter response to
    > Ham at the time was:
    >
    > "Agreed, there is no collective mind. You are the one big on the existence
    > of "mind," Ham, not I. There is, however, peer review. There is education,
    > mathematics, language; without which there is no science."
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >
    >
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