Re: MD Materialism and DQ

From: Scott Roberts (
Date: Wed Jul 20 2005 - 04:22:25 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD Materialism and DQ"


    Reinier said:
    I guess it's agreed by Scott and Paul that 'time'and 'space' are
    intellectual patterns.

    However, Paul and I have such different takes on what counts as an
    intellectual pattern (I say all patterns are intellectual, whether humans
    are involved or not) that it is hard to call this agreement.

    Reinier said:
    In my opinion, they're just that, and they don't link to the 'time' and
    'space' that all sentient beings 'experience'. They're an intellectual
    pattern just as 'a pink elephant with 9 legs and 3 eyes' is an intellectual
    pattern. One can talk about it, one has a mental image of it but it reflects
    nothing from perceived reality.
    Time and space are never directly experienced, so they are no
    stattic-quality pattern on any level. They sort of are the follow-up of us
    experiencing change and organic and inorganic static quality. They're the
    minds sollution to deal with that.

    By this usage of "direct experience", you would have to say that Quality is
    not directly experienced either. If I define time as "experience of change",
    and space as "experience of separation" would you then say that they are
    directly experienced? (This is the old Newton/Leibniz debate. You are, I
    think, arguing against Newton, but I'm not sure anyone here is a Newtonian.)

    Also, why is thinking not a direct experience?

    Reinier said:
    With DQ and SQ being all there is, there's no need for space. With SQ really
    being DQ in disguise, there's no need for time.

    But there is a need, if one is doing metaphysics, to inquire into the
    experience of separation and of change. For shorthand, call them 'space' and

    - Scott

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