Re: MD MOQ: Involved or on the Sideline?

From: Scott Roberts (
Date: Fri Aug 05 2005 - 20:33:57 BST

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    MSH writes:
    > In fact, when he dismisses the movements of the 60's as spontaneous
    > reactions against the social AND intellectual levels, Pirsig is
    > simply WRONG, or guilty of immense oversimplification. The fact that many
    > people on this list keep repeating his view is a little unsettling. There
    > was nothing spontaneous or anti-intellectual about any of the movements I
    > mentioned above; nor is there anything anti- intellectual about the
    > current
    > movements against so called "free trade" globilization efforts, and
    > against
    > the current war in Iraq.

    Platt responds:
    Does anyone want to follow Chomsky's Chum in worshipping the intellectual
    quality of the hippies?

    As I said to Mark, he (Mark) is not referring to hippies in the above, but
    to the New Left, the Civil Rights movement, and so your criticism here is
    misdirected, as is Mark's criticism of Pirsig. But what I want to say is
    that there was high intellectual quality in the hippie movement. It was
    largely drowned out by low quality stuff --and by misunderstanding from the
    non-hippie social environment, but there was a nugget of good quality in the
    mix. Primarily, it was raising the awareness of alternate states of
    consciousness, and that these could be liberating. Could be, please note,
    not necessarily would be. Pirsig's peyote experience, for example. In
    general, there was an expansion of awareness of non-European,
    non-materialist cultures, both indigenous and Eastern. SQ was dynamically
    challenged and superceded. In fact, I would regard ZMM as a high quality
    outgrowth of many ideas that had their origin and/or development, in hippie

    - Scott

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