From: Laycock, Jos (OSPT) (Jos.Laycock@OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK)
Date: Wed Sep 14 2005 - 09:33:58 BST
Cheers Mark,
Firstly, it got mangled slightly in transit, action should be the final
column on the right, but I have received it jumbled into the static leftmost
group. Anyway my responses are embedded......
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of mark maxwell
Sent: 14 September 2005 01:54
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: RE: MD The intelligence fallacy (was Rhetoric)
Mark:
"Hello Jos,
You should be applauded for your creative endeavour.
Anyone who steps up to the plate and does what you are
doing should be given a big hand. Brave person!"
Your table is a pretty good synthesis of Bodvar
Skutvik's SOLAQI i reckon. Well done."
Jos:
Synthesising it with what? I was hoping the MOQ?
Mark:
"The table does not accord with the Metaphysics of
Quality though".
Jos:
Bugger.
Mark:
"For example, emotions are biological patterns in the
MOQ but social in the SOLAQI if i remember correctly."
Jos:
Ok I will agree to differ on this one
Mark:
Also, intellectual patterns are not restricted to
subjects and objects; these are identified by the
intellect as one among many patterns. S/O are derived
from social aspects of our culture.
Jos:
Ah, but this is where I differ from Bo, I don't think that intellectual
patterns are restricted to subjects and objects, I am suggesting that the
experience that an intellectual pattern has of other patterns is the subject
object distinction. The patterns themselves are not visible to intellect.
Mark:
I'm not clear what you mean by action?
Action, in a metaphysical sense, regards change and
change is Dynamic. Action is being used here as a
synonym for DQ.
Jos:
To be honest, I really wanted another column to complete the pyramid and
give intellect another class to distinguishes it from culture. Had to think
really hard to come up with one and wasn't particularly happy with what I
got.
Point is though, that after reaching a conclusion, intellect strives to
better itself, where culture strives to maintain the status quo.
Mark:
To say that Inorganic patterns do not 'know' may not
accord with the MOQ either? In the sense that sq
patterns are stable they 'know' what to do in order to
remain stable and not become chaotic.
Jos:
I don't deny that they remain stable, but am asserting that this ability is
proprietary to inorganic experience. (also trying to please Ham and not say
that bolts "know" things)
Mark:
One thing i find very interesting about your table is
this: You have made me realise that epistemology could
be viewed as a resistance to DQ. I've not looked at it
that way before! Cheers Jos!
Mark
Hi all,
Not sure where to put this in the course of the
current debate, but I
feel
my thoughts crystallising into something that might
aid us in our quest
for
useful definitions, so here goes:
Pattern "Experience" "Knowing" Conclusion
Action
Intellectual S/O distinction Analytic Conditional
beliefs
Pursuit of synthesis
Cultural Emotion Linguistic Belief
nil
Biological Sensation Aware nil
nil
Inorganic Physical forces nil nil
nil
Essence nil/all/? nil/all/? nil/all/?
nil/all/?
In context then, I am saying that Chaos is the same as
essence and
there is
no experience there at all, being proprietary only to
static patterns
(Ham?). Inorganic patterns have experience but no
knowing, biological
patterns have experience and knowing but draw no
conlusions, cultures
have
experience, knowing and draw conclusions and only
intellectual patterns
set
out to change themselves. Trouble is that they always
fail as they are
undermined by their own experience, which blinds them
to any non
rational
outcome.
Now, rather than saying something vague like "the
intellectual level is
symbol manipulation", I can follow the table from
right to left down
the
pyramid, and say:
"The intellectual level is the pursuit of answers to
conflicting
conditional
beliefs via critical analysis of the subject object
distinctions that
are
apparent in light of belief in linguistic descriptions
of emotions that
arise from awareness of sensations brought about by
physical forces
arising
from a mysic essence".
Which can be reduced to the pleasing acronym
PACCBCASOBLDEASPFME
Modifications?
Jos
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