From: Arlo J. Bensinger (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sat Oct 22 2005 - 23:58:32 BST
About Pirsig's clear and undebately statements that the MOQ has its origns in
the illuminations brought about by the Native American peyote ceremony...
You have repeated the same passage in this post twice, not to mention
several times in previous posts. Seems you are trying to push through your idea
by using the "over and over again" propaganda technique.
I repeat it because you evade it every time. It clearly demonstrates what you
are trying to ignore. Why, I'm not sure. My "agenda" is to rescue the dialogue
from those wishing to pretend certain things don't exist, or were never said.
But until you can show me in the passage you quote anything about quality,
morality or value, your argument remains unconvincing.
Once again, I never said everything came full blown in the ceremony. But Pirsig
is clear that all the analysis and reason that was used to develop the MOQ
originated from the illuminations of the peyote ceremony. I can't see how this
is even debatable, except by revisionists who wish to deny what Pirsig actually
said for their own "agenda".
Anyone can read what he wrote and see that the illuminations brought forth that
night by the peyote were what led to the path of thought that emerged as the
MOQ. Plain and simple.
So, given that the MOQ is not in universal acceptance, what evidence do you have
that since ZMM people are suddenly attunded to Quality (in production and
consumption)? Was he wrong? Did some other illumination hit the population? The
SOMist means of production and consumption in ZMM, how have they changed?
If you think Pirsig was out to change human nature, I think you're
I didn't say that, and you avoided the question.
People are basing their decisions on what they consider to be Quality as
they have since the beginning of time. I fail to see the connection
between a metaphysics based on morality and whether I choose a Honda or a
Rolls Royce in the marketplace. Perhaps you can explain.
And as Pirsig pointed out in ZMM, they had no provisions for morals in the
production and consumption of goods, part of the century of post-Industrial
revolution decay caused by an amoral metaphysics. As for you question, I
shouldn't have to explain it, Pirsig already did an excellent job of that in
ZMM. And if you try to pervert what I said into "Honda versus Royles Royce",
then I don't think you understood ZMM at all.
Again, I don't think Pirsig wrote his books to interfere with people's
free choices in the free market. It wasn't his style to be like Richard
Rigel, "Full of great ways for others to improve without any expense to
themselves." (Lila, 7)
Jeez. Do I have to say this in every post? My fingers are a' achin'! No, Pirsig
did not want to interfere with the "free market", he wanted to give people a
means to appreciate Quality in production and consumption, an absence of which
created a "free market" overloaded with junk.
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