MD Re: Quality, subjectivity and the 4th level

From: Michael Hamilton (thethemichael@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Oct 30 2005 - 15:17:58 GMT

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    Hang on, that was just the SOL, wasn't it?

    Pretty much. But I'm not just trying to say all the things Bo's said a
    thousand times. I'm asking a very personal question to everyone who
    rejects SOL. Have you seriously shed you subjectivity, in your
    day-to-day life? Or do you still experience your thinking as the
    product of an islanded subject (albeit an islanded subject with a
    million and one outside influences)? 'Cos I do.

    Thanks to the likes of Pirsig, we can dream up metaphysics in which
    the subject/object divide is not fundamental. We can spend as long as
    we like thinking about a time and a place in which the subject/object
    divide never existed. But we're still thinking as subjects, and any
    attempt to wipe subjectivity from one's life entirely would be a
    regression, not a progression. I'm all in favour of dissolving one's
    subjectivity every so often, in fact I think it should be done
    regularly, in some way or another. But to dissolve subjectivity
    forever would be to eradicate one of DQ's most wonderful creations, I
    think.

    Regards,
    Mike

    On 10/30/05, Michael Hamilton <thethemichael@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Hi everyone,
    >
    > I'd like to recap some of the suggestions floating about on the MD
    > recently. Scott's been insisting that the thinking intellect is both
    > static and dynamic - that thinking can be a synonym of Quality. Bo,
    > meanwhile, insists on a sharp divide between "intellect" and
    > "intelligence", where "intellect" should only be used to describe the
    > peculiar brand of intelligence or thinking that has arisen with the
    > subject/object divide. Gav made the interesting suggestion that
    > intelligence, under Bo's dichotomy, could be the synonym for Quality.
    >
    > Now I'd like to ask a question to the majority on this list who accept
    > Pirsig's thesis that the subject/object divide is not fundamental to
    > reality: do you ever experience your thinking to be anything other
    > than a purely subjective activity?
    >
    > My suggestion is that, in replying "no" to this question, I place
    > myself in the 4th static level, and distinguish myself from the type
    > of intelligence that preceded intellect. My suggestion is that the
    > subject/object divide is fundamental to what we are. My suggestion is
    > that, at the 4th level, Quality manifests itself as separate
    > intelligences who feel that they are separate.
    >
    > I retract any claim that social- or mythological-level human beings
    > did not distinguish between self or other. My claim now is that they
    > differed from us in their mode of thinking, in their intelligence. The
    > difference is that they did not entirely feel it to the "their"
    > thinking, "their" intelligence, at all. As Barfield contends, they
    > felt it to be a participation - not something that springs from inside
    > some shadowy realm inside their heads, but something more like an
    > all-pervading Nous (mind) that they could tap into. Or even gods
    > talking to them. It's impossible to generalise about all 3rd-level
    > consciousness, as it must have varied quite a lot. But I think we can
    > be very specific about what distinguishes our 4th-level consciousness.
    > In a word: subjectivity.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Mike
    >
    > P.S. Reading this back, I realise my tone's quite assertive. Really,
    > I'm just trying to put my (!) thoughts into words and get these ideas
    > out there. I feel like I've encountered a few jigsaw pieces regarding
    > intellect, and I'm just trying to get them to fit together. Does the
    > picture make sense to anyone?
    >

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