Re: MD A Question of Balance / Rules of the Game

From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Tue Nov 08 2005 - 21:26:33 GMT

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    Rebecca

    Not bad, not perfect.

    'Value quantifies quality' you seem to say, something in it, but somethings can
    have very high value or equal value but have very different qualities.

    Also, how does DQ relate to SQ. Is the cosmos not teeming with SQ,
    bursting forth with new SQ, is this abundance and creativity not what
    DQleaves in its trail?

    David M

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Rebecca Temmer
      To: moq_discuss@moq.org
      Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:32 PM
      Subject: Re: MD A Question of Balance / Rules of the Game

      Hey Case,

      You wrote:

        I have argued repeatedly that having a multiple undefined terms is folly. So
        I will present as nearly as possible in sound bites, the main terms of the
        MoQ as they seem Good to me.

        Quality - Undefined - the Tao. When apprended in its purest form it reflects
        the union or balance between opposites. It is the monism from which all
        dualisms spring. As Lao Tsu put it: "When named it is the mother of all
        things." Perceptually it is harmony or balance. To pursue it is to follow
        The Way of Virtue. It is undefined not for mystical or esthetic reason but
        for practical reasons. It is 'reality' and 'reality' is unknowable as
        Heisenburg, Godel, Wilson, Hume, Kant, and just about anyone who thinks
        about much can testify. Our apprehension of Quality is limited by our very
        nature.

        Value - Is the quantification of Quality. The hot stove is Low Quality or
        better yet Negative Quality. It repels us. But consider for a moment a
        merely warm stove. It may not be so hot as to burn you. It may be the only
        place in the room to sit. If it is turned on and the temperature is
        increasing, this increase can be measured and assigned a numerical value.
        You can even take note of which specific Values individuals find to hot to
        handle. Value is undervalued in these MoQ discussions. Values can be
        assigned to dualistic opposites in many ways. We like or dislike things
        esthetically. We give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. Or we like it a lot and
        give it 4 stars. Or Values can be specified with increasing precision
        leading to math and physics which are all about the relationships and
        interaction of Values. The point being that in the MoQ both physics and art
        are all about the interplay of Values.

        Dynamic - A much abused term in these discussions. It's meaning seems to
        range from the undefined to the mystical to the intellect to the warm
        fuzziness of the ineffablly groovy. Mostly it seems to be redundantly
        identified with Quality itself. Pirsig himself contributes to this
        confusion. The term has extraordinary Value when taken a face Value. That is

        Dynamic means change, flux, motion. From the wave property of matter to the
        a priori concept of time to the paradigm shift in ideas; the dynamic can be
        assigned Value from positive and negative to specific quantification of rate
        of change.

        Static - The opposite of dynamic as any dualistic pole should be. Static
        means stable, fixed, orderly.

       

        I would love to go on and on about how useful this version of MoQ is but I
        have thus far been unable to get anyone to even say that it is bad or
        misguided. I do not find this formulation to be at odds with what Pirsig
        says. I also think it cuts through many of the arguments going on here and
        paves the way for intergration of the MoQ into a broad range of subjects
        from evolution to theology.

      Rebecca replies:
      So, I'll agree with you on pretty much the entire thing.
      That's what the terms static (not moving) and dynamic (moving) mean.
      If you would hop over to the thread I started on the Holy Trinity, on which I will post a response to DMB's question perhaps we could continue this conversation. :)

      Looking forward to your response...
      Rebecca

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