From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Mon Nov 21 2005 - 12:54:32 GMT
Case,
I think we may be going around in circles but, nonetheless, here is a reply.
>Paul: No, post-LILA, Quality = DQ + SQ therefore, post-LILA, Quality is
>partially defined. The problem I want to avoid is the way people sometimes
>use 'Quality' to refer to DQ, and sometimes to both DQ + SQ together and
>sometimes to a third thing, as you do.
>
>[Case]
>IF that is your intent dropping Quality doesn't solve the problem. You are
>still left with a forumlation that has DQ and SQ emerge from Quality. SQ is
>defined DQ is not. See above.
Paul: No, Quality IS DQ plus SQ. DQ doesn't emerge from anything and
static patterns emerge from DQ.
>[Case]
>Quality was purposely undefined. DQ is not equal to Quality.
Paul: Although this is based on your 'scheme' this is an example of the
equivocation I'm trying to avoid. To avoid ambiguity I would translate it
as:
"[In ZMM,] 'Quality' was purposely undefined. DQ is not equal to [the]
'Quality' [of LILA which includes static quality.]"
I think you equivocate because 'Quality' is used differently in ZMM to how
it is used in LILA (after Chapter 9) so it cannot be used without further
qualification.
>It is Quality
>in its dynamic aspect. The word dynamic is easily defined and seems to fit.
I agree that DQ is Quality in its Dynamic aspect but disagree that it is
defined because the undefined Quality of ZMM becomes the DQ of LILA.
Here is a description of 'Quality' as used in ZMM:
"He simply meant that at the cutting edge of time, before an object can be
distinguished, there must be a kind of nonintellectual awareness, which he
called awareness of Quality." [ZMM, p253]
"This preintellectual reality is what Phædrus felt he had properly
identified as Quality. Since all intellectually identifiable things must
emerge from this preintellectual reality, Quality is the parent, the source
of all subjects and objects." [ZMM, p253]
Which corresponds to the description of 'Dynamic Quality' in LILA:
"Dynamic Quality is the preintellectual cutting edge of reality, the source
of all things..." [LILA, p133]
Then in Chapter 11 he uses 'Quality' in a way which includes static
patterns:
"Nothing dominates Quality. If there's domination and possession involved,
it's Quality that dominates and possesses Lila. She's created by it. She's
a cohesion of changing static patterns of this Quality." [LILA, p159, Ch11]
So I suggest that 'Quality' is either used to refer to the combination of DQ
and SQ together or it isn't used on its own at all.
To carry on with the pseudo-maths, you seem to be saying that
(undefined Q) - (defined DQ) - (defined SQ) = (undefined Q)
and that therefore
Q = Q + DQ + SQ.
Which doesn't 'add up'. See what I mean?
>Sorry for being snippy I have been
>frustrated over this for sometime now and have not really gotten any
>response in the past to questions about it.
Paul: No problem at all, Case.
Regards
Paul
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