Re: MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality

From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Nov 24 2005 - 12:19:01 GMT

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD Longer transcript of ZMM?"

    Bo,

    We've already known for ages that you don't see "rationality" being
    greater than SOMism, so do you have any conception of or any kind of
    word for mental / intellectual considerations beyond SOM ?

    If you do, we could just use that word instead of rationality.
    (As I've said a thousand times you simply limit the word rationality
    to mean classical pre-MoQ intellect only. This is just a linguistic
    problem.)

    But like Paul, I'd like to see "whatever it is" as part of the MoQ
    framework, not something beyond it.

    (See my response to Squonk on the Autonomy thread too.)

    Ian

    On 11/24/05, skutvik@online.no <skutvik@online.no> wrote:
    > Paul and Apostles
    >
    > 21 Nov.
    >
    > > Paul: Rebecca has already corrected your misunderstanding regarding
    > > my notation. So, back to my argument:
    >
    > Yes, blush!
    >
    > > If intellectual level = rationality
    > > and
    > > If rationality > SOM
    > > Then intellectual level > SOM
    >
    > > Which premise do you believe is false?
    >
    > The "rationality greater than SOM" naturally.
    >
    > It implies that the MOQ (all of it) is a 4th level pattern. A religious
    > believer will claim that s-he is rational, which means that religions
    > along with the myths of old are "intellectual patterns". MOQ's
    > terrific explanatory power comes from the level discreteness and
    > a 4th.level that is to host every idea forwarded since time
    > immemorial and - in addition - the MOQ which IS the very level
    > system makes a mess of it.
    >
    > > So, as I'm a little confused by your position, or maybe because I'm a
    > > village idiot, answer this simple question:
    >
    > > As Pirsig suggests in ZMM, can rationality be expanded beyond
    > > classical S/O rationality?
    >
    > The level system hadn't occurred in ZMM so "an expansion
    > beyond classical S/O rationality" could hardly be anything else
    > than a "better rationality ". But in LILA where the 4th. level bears
    > every mark of being SOM, the very system that sees this level
    > along with the rest is beyond them. The term "beyond" carries
    > some beyond significance. No?
    >
    > -------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Pirsig in ZMM:
    > > "So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the solution to the problem
    > > isn't that you abandon rationality but that you expand the nature of
    > > rationality so that it's capable of coming up with a solution."
    >
    > "Not abandoning rationality" is the key. The 4th level must be
    > kept, it can never abandon its S/O value - no ore than the 3rd,
    > second or first levels can theirs.
    >
    > Bo
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Nov 24 2005 - 13:24:49 GMT