From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Mar 30 2003 - 22:19:02 BST
Sam and all:
DMB had said:
I think that the forces and values on both sides in the present war are
social.
Sam asked:
Could you unpick that a little? In other words, would you say that the
"imposition" of democracy was the imposition of a social value?
DMB says:
It seems everybody agrees that Democracy is intellectual, but there are two
problems here. The imposition of democratic values at gun point is
imperialism. Don't be fooled or distracted by the quality of the values
being imposed. Its the imposition itself that is social and objectionable.
The second major problem is just basic garden variety insincerity. The
problem with Saddam is not that he's an undemocratic thug, its that he's not
OUR undemocratic thug. We aid and support every Kingdom and military
Dictatorship from Pakistan to Egypt. If Bush were really out to give Iraq
back to the people of that country, he'd be reversing many decades of
American foreign policies. It would almost be a cheapshot to mention his
apparent contempt for voters and the democratic process in Florida and the
UN Security Council, but I think they really do epitomize Bush's attitude.
Sam said:
You and I agree that Modernism has something seriously wrong with it (as
indeed does anyone who buys into the MoQ - we just disagree on the details).
Yet in this situation it is Modernism which is up against both
Fundamentalism, but also a social pattern which - correctly, IMHO - discerns
patterns in Modernism which it rejects -*and it is right to do so*. My point
is really that unless the West - by which I really mean the US
administration - realises this, then it will lose. It might win this
particular war, it might even win the next two or three, but unless it
changes, I think it is just storing up trouble for later - as you point out.
That doesn't mean that Modernism deserves to lose - it has a higher DQ
potential, clearly - it's just a worry that something very big is being
missed by Western leaders, as a result of Modernist/SOM thinking. Which the
MoQ has something to say about.
DMB says:
I have a different impression of the administration, but other than that I'm
with you. We'd likely see some kind of reactionary movement as the
intellectual level assumes control, but for historical reasons the Western
intellect has a flaw that exaggerates the problem. SOM says the things that
religion values most is unreal and unimportant. That kind of treatment tends
to anger certain people. But I'd re-assert you idea that Modernism deserves
to win, by which I think you mean that intellect should win. The reactionary
movements are motivated by a genuine problem, but their cure is worse than
the disease. We don't want to abandon or destroy intellectual values, we
just want to fix the flaw, see the blindspot. In spite of the fact that
extrem forms only make this problem worse, the postmodern critique is far
more preferable than the pre-modern critique. There's no going back, or
rather, going back is degenerate. Its devolution. It represents the death
and destruction of higher values in order to protect lower values. Its evil.
As I see the present situation, Saddam is basically a secular
Islamo-fascists. Bin Laden is a militant Islamic fundamentalist. Bush is New
Right Christian fundamentalist. Obviously there are differences between
these leaders, but the similarities scare me.
Sam asked:
What is NPR?
DMB answers:
National Public Radio, our version of the BBC. In fact, our station airs the
BBC every night until 6am.
Aristotle:
The lover of myth is in a sense the lover of wisdom, for myth is composed of
wonders.
DMB says:
Sadly, in today's common usage "myth" means "a lie" or "a common
misconception". The distance between this meaning and Aristotle's view
speaks volumes about what Modernity has done to the social level.
Thanks.
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