Re: MD What's the difference?

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Thu May 15 2003 - 23:12:19 BST

  • Next message: "Re: MD Quality events and the levels"

    Hi Sam,

    > You're right that my view is
    > that Quality is a phenomenon separate from anything (conscious)
    > experiencing it. So contra Berkeley I think that a tree falls in the forest
    > even if nobody observes it.

    In case you missed it, here's what Pirsig says about the infamous
    falling tree--from Annotation 80 in 'Lila's Child.'

    "This is the usual argument against the philosophic idealism that is part
    of the MOQ so it had better be answered here. It is similar to the
    question, "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a
    sound?" The historic answer of the idealists is, "What tree?" In order to
    ask this question you have to presuppose the existence of the falling
    tree and then ask whether this presupposed tree would vanish if nobody
    were there. Of course it wouldn't vanish! It has already been
    presupposed. This presupposition is a standard logical fallacy known as
    a hypothesis contrary to fact. It is the "hypothetical question" that is
    always thrown out of court as inadmissible. If pigs could fly how high
    would they go?"


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