From: Wim Nusselder (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri May 23 2003 - 07:17:03 BST
Some more disjointed remarks on some or your reactions to my responses to
You wrote 19 May 2003 12:30:46 +0100:
'I think "eudaimonic" is a more fruitful description of level 4, ie it's not
just that I don't like the standard account - even if these flaws in the
standard account were overcome, I would still prefer a "eudaimonic"
So our discussion should shift to your reasons for preferring your version
of the MoQ (contrary to your essay, which was structured as: standard
account > problems > solution > possible arguments against that solution).
You gave a hint with:
'one of the things I most like about the "eudaimonic" thesis, [is] clarity
with regard to ethical motivations'.
Aren't you talking about 'morality' in the old, SOM-ruled sense here? I.e.
'morality' only in the sense of 'values ruling/guiding individual
behavior/actions' and not in the sense of 'values constituting
Your replied 19 May 2003 12:30:46 +0100 with 'OK' to my:
'The reality we try to describe is our experience and the fact that
sometimes we do NOT experience subject-object (or even subject-subject)
differentiation indicates (and -if we rule out delusion- proves) that
descriptions requiring choosing/acting subjects are false.'
I have the slight impression that your Eudaimonic MoQ DOES require
choosing/acting subjects to be intelligible...
You 19 May 2003 12:30:46 +0100 summarized your view on the distinction
between 3rd and 4th level most succinctly in:
'I see the distinction being defined by the emergence of a static pattern of
(level 3) values that is able to dissent from the dominant patterns which
created it, and thereby 'go off on patterns of its own' - I call this the
This seems muddy to me: A 3rd level pattern of value (not 'values' in my
view!) that is created by other 3rd level patterns of value??? And you mean
'go off on purposes of its own'. So the same 'choosing unit' can latch both
3rd level patterns of value (before 'going off ...') and 4th level patterns
of value (afterwards)??
With friendly greetings,
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