Re: MD Structuralism in Pirsig

From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon Jun 09 2003 - 11:12:06 BST

  • Next message: Paul Turner: "Re: MD DQ/SQ tension in government"

    Matt

    > Matt:
    > And conversely, an intellectual value to you is
    > whether an idea fits with Pirsig's explanation in
    > Lila.

    And ZMM, SODV and Lila's Child.

    > I'm perfectly comfortable accepting that "it is your
    > sense of value that decides" what provides a good
    > explanation. That's usually my point in other posts
    > to this forum. So I fail to see its relevance to
    > what we were just talking about.

    You said: "but
    pragmatists don't give a lot of credence to the idea
    of ideas that are seperate
    from their social patterns."

    and

    "Pragmatists don't make a distinction between
    the truth of an idea and a real community's approval
    of an idea. It's
    what we mean by the slogan "solidarity, not
    objectivity." We replace
    objective truth with intersubjective agreement."

    Which I took to mean that pragmatists think that ideas
    are good only if a group of people agree they are
    good. I disagree with that. Intersubjective agreement
    simply explains what I mean by 'common sense'.

    The point about an intellectual sense of value being
    distinct from a social sense of value is that
    intersubjective agreement does not necessarily equate
    to a high quality intellectual pattern, just a
    socially approved one.
     
    As far as I can
    > see, I summed up our disagreements fairly well, as
    > is evident from your superfluous reminders that "The
    > MOQ values the idea that intellectual patterns of
    > value are distinct from social patterns. That's the
    > way it goes," and "Zen Buddhists would leave
    > [ultimate reality] in."

    Yes, you did sum up fairly well - I repeated 'that's
    the way it goes' to show you that I thought it was a
    superfluous addition to your original statement.

    cheers

    Paul

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