From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon Jun 09 2003 - 11:12:06 BST
Matt
> Matt:
> And conversely, an intellectual value to you is
> whether an idea fits with Pirsig's explanation in
> Lila.
And ZMM, SODV and Lila's Child.
> I'm perfectly comfortable accepting that "it is your
> sense of value that decides" what provides a good
> explanation. That's usually my point in other posts
> to this forum. So I fail to see its relevance to
> what we were just talking about.
You said: "but
pragmatists don't give a lot of credence to the idea
of ideas that are seperate
from their social patterns."
and
"Pragmatists don't make a distinction between
the truth of an idea and a real community's approval
of an idea. It's
what we mean by the slogan "solidarity, not
objectivity." We replace
objective truth with intersubjective agreement."
Which I took to mean that pragmatists think that ideas
are good only if a group of people agree they are
good. I disagree with that. Intersubjective agreement
simply explains what I mean by 'common sense'.
The point about an intellectual sense of value being
distinct from a social sense of value is that
intersubjective agreement does not necessarily equate
to a high quality intellectual pattern, just a
socially approved one.
As far as I can
> see, I summed up our disagreements fairly well, as
> is evident from your superfluous reminders that "The
> MOQ values the idea that intellectual patterns of
> value are distinct from social patterns. That's the
> way it goes," and "Zen Buddhists would leave
> [ultimate reality] in."
Yes, you did sum up fairly well - I repeated 'that's
the way it goes' to show you that I thought it was a
superfluous addition to your original statement.
cheers
Paul
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