From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Fri Jun 27 2003 - 16:21:58 BST
Ah this is a good one, and perhaps more subtle than first appears ...
Essentially I agree.
What (one believes) one sees ..IS.. what one (honestly) prefers to see.
Hence my earlier post about belief (opinion) and fact being synonymous.
When Bacon said this he was talking at a time where what people generally
said was based only on their beliefs, and the idea that some things may be
based on science "fact" didn't exist - he was making a plea for being more
scientifically objective. ie describing what they "saw" needed to be taken
literally (phenomenologically), rather than descriptions of what was seen
based on prior understood causality, in turn based on their beliefs. (Bacon
of course effectively invented this concept of scientific methodology)
Everyone, and MoQites are no different, describes the world they "see" in
terms of the language of their "understood" model of the world. What we have
now has come full circle the other way, people are generally only "allowed"
to believe what is scientifically "evident" despite "knowing" different
through broader forms of experience. The difference is MoQites "prefer" an
MoQ view of the world, but no-one would ever characterise their own view as
merely "preferential" - except where deception and political correctness
arise.
Cultural latching onto one view of the world is essential (as a stable basis
for progress), but not sufficent (for the dynamic capability to actually
make progress.)
Which is why Bacon was (with hindsight) wrong, or rather not entirely right.
Pragmatically he was right to make people with only culturally founded
beliefs stop and question what they actually saw vs the basis (if any) of
their beliefs. With further hindsight - Bacon was just too sucessful in
getting scientific methodology accepted to the exclusion of all other
beliefs.
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Pi
Sent: 27 June 2003 03:45
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD Bacon quote
On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 11:39:10AM -0400, Valence wrote:
> [snip]
> RICK
> I believe that Bacon is simply praising writers who describe what they see
> instead of what they'd prefer to see. I agree with him. We need such
> people.
I have come to believe that there is no difference between 'describing what
one sees' and 'what one prefers to see'. I would suspect most MoQ'ers here
would agree with that.
Cheers,
- Pi
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