From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jul 06 2003 - 23:43:03 BST
Hey Steve, Platt and all
S
> Thinking of social and intellectual patterns as emerging simultaneously,
you
> lose the hierarchical nature of the levels. Again I ask you, how could
you
> say that the intellectual level is a higher level than the social level if
> both types of patterns emerged at the same time?
R
Interesting question. And I think it implies another interesting question,
which is "Can levels get promoted?". Take this quote for example....
PIRSIG (LILA p344)
"The intellect's evolutionary purpose has never been to discover an ultimate
meaning of the universe. That is a relatively recent fad. Its historical
purpose has been to help a society find food, detect danger, and defeat
enemies."
R
This quote makes me wonder whether this historical intellect predates social
patterning.
Finding food, detecting danger and defeating enemies is something that every
animal does. Eons before there were societies, or social patterns, or even
humans, there were animals finding food, detecting danger and defeating
enemies. When humans came on the scene, the demands of the environment
(biological + inorganic patterns) necessitated that if they were to survive,
like every other species, would have to come up with a way to find food,
detect danger and defeat enemies. For whatever reason, unlike other animals
who had evolved extra sharp senses, claws, teeth, horns, etc, etc...for
humans, it was the brain that evolved to give them the edge needed to make
the Darwinian cut. And for millions of years it went on like this, packs of
biological humans using their biological brains to solve biological
problems... really no different than packs of wolves using their teeth and
noses to solve the same problems. At this point I would see the existence
of only 2 levels, Inorganic and biological. The "intellect" is still no
more than a biological pattern serving a biological purpose. Biology was
100% of the equation that determined our behavior and thoughts.
However, eventually there came a point where the packs of humans using their
intellects to find food, detect danger and defeat enemies began to develop
social patterns to solve these same problems. That is, the "biological
intellect" invented social patterns because it figured out that social
patterning was the best way for humans to find food, detect danger and
defeat enemies. The more social patterns developed, the less the
"biological intellect" itself was needed for those original evolutionary
purposes. The problems of food, danger and enemy were best solved by
following the social patterns and eventually, there came a point, maybe even
a single moment in history, where the social patterns became 51% of the
equation that determined our behavior and thoughts.... I pin that day as the
birthday of "Society", or "the Giant". And once the Giant was in control it
didn't take long until social patterns were invented for every conceivable
purpose and had become so entrenched that intellect had essentially become
all but obsolete in the quest to find food, detect danger and defeat
enemies. It was dormant... drowned out by the social force. But more
importantly, it was now free to 'go off on purposes of its own'. It was at
this point that the Intellect ascended to the top of the chain, being
finally "promoted" above society.
I don't know... what do you think?
S
> Enough for now. I've been emphasizing types of patterns of value for some
> time and haven't gotten much response. I hope you will consider the
"types
> of patterns/types of people" distinction in reading Lila and that you will
> choose to talk about patterns of value rather than types of people when
> clarity is needed. I think it would clear up a lot of disagreement in
this
> discussion group.
R
I think I agree with your "pattern" v "people dominated by patterns"
distinction. People are animals who are sometimes dominated by biological
patterns, sometimes by social patterns, and sometimes intellectual patterns.
I like that, I'll think about it some more.
take care
rick
To exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on
creating oneself endlessly. - Henri Bergson
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