From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 2003 - 00:31:29 BST
Hi Steve, Sqounk, all
Squonk didn't say Bo was delibrately being racist, and I didn't mean to
suggest that either when I supported Squonk. My support was for subjects
and objects being as old as quality, and the intellectual level not being
synonomous with the S/O worldview.
I'm not even sure I agree with squonk that saying that a culture doesn't
have an intellectual level is so racist or derisive anyway. Good for them,
I say. I think squonk feels this insults a culture by calling them less
intelligent? I don't think that it does. The intelligence of a person has
nothing to do with if intellectual patterns are being propogated through
their thoughts and words, many intellectual patterns rather rely on
corrupted people for their conveyance, and often thrive as patterns, while
intellectual patterns which are more nuanced and less sexy don't get
conveyed at all and die off.
I don't feel that a culture is superior if it supports more intellectual
patterns than another, nor do I think that a culture is inferior if it has
remained entirely social. I can see that one is "fittest" for this Giant
world, but I never felt that "fittest" meant superior, as Pirsig implies.
That idea of evolution being infallibly toward betterness is what struck me
as racist, that "social darwinism" that says that White culture is better
that Zuni culture because it is "more dynamic" and has more intellectual
patterns. It is the culture which the Giant relies on most, because it is
easy. It has contempt for morality, not respect for morality. That's why
it is winning, and why the Zuni powers are now broken. The Giant doesn't
care what the race is of the culture it is using to grow and evolve though,
it just chose one that was open to the short term Faustian bargain of
relative material wealth in exchange for disavowing morality as truth. I
guess it is related to the S/O divide, in that the S/O divide is based on
there being an objective truth that can be found by stripping away our
cultural blind spots and exposing what really exists. The Giant is the huge
sludge dump of infrastructure needed for this search for truth and
satisfaction material wealth.
Johnny
>Rich, Joe, all,
>
>It is a shame that you voiced your agreement with squonk that "the claim
>that ancient Greece saw the emergence of subjects and objects is quite
>frankly ludicrous" under the heading "racism in the forum." I would have
>done it under a different heading. Since squonk had recently solicited
>support for his charge of racism against Bo in this thread, such support
>would seem to support squonk's charge of racism. I hope that would be an
>incorrect inference and that you will be clear on whether "being with
>squonk" means that you also think that Bo is deliberately promoting racism
>and whether such accusations are appropriate to our discussion group.
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
>
>
> > Hear! Hear! Squonk. I'm with you, too!!
> > Rich
> >
> > Joe <jhmau@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> On 09 July 2003 4:50 AM Squonk writes to Scott:
> >>
> >> Hi Squonk, Scott, and all,
> >>
> >> joe: I think as you, Squonk! Well said!
> >>>
> >>> So, the claim that ancient Greece saw the emergence of subjects and
>objects
> >>> is quite frankly ludicrous. What did happen was a very severe emphasis
>- a
> >>> world shattering mistake of making these divisions permanent like the
>Gods.
> >>> Its an artistic creation, and primarily an aesthetic one. You simply
>do not
> >>> need a SoM to do maths or geometry, and the S/O divide is certainly
>not a
> >>> prerequisite for another level in the MoQ.
> >>>
>
>
>
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