From: Nathan Pila (pila@sympatico.ca)
Date: Fri Nov 07 2003 - 21:58:17 GMT
Johnny,
OK. I think I see most of what you have written.
Let me take you to one part where you say, "We expect apples to fall to the
earth because we have seen apples falling to the earth, and this is why
apples fall to the earth."
What about the concept of gravity? Where does that fit in with your
thoughts? Do apples fall because we have seen them fall before and so expect
them to fall now, and then they do, or it is that objects attract eachother
with a gravitational force and this is the root cause of apples accelerating
to the earth.
In other words, if humans and all other beings that have consciousness were
to disappear, would apples stop falling?
Regards to you,
Nathan
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?
> Hi Nathan,
>
> Good question, thanks
>
> I'd say essence is more of a static and intellectual thing than
expectation,
> which is active and real and may change. Essence is dead and lifeless,
> expectation chomps at the bit and wants to drive ahead. An essence has no
> motive implicit in it, while an expectation has a moral imperitive
component
> that is the (only) motive for it becoming real. Why does an essence
become
> a bicycle (or tree or rock), and why doesn't it become this perfect
> essential bicycle or tree everytime? Essence may describe our
expectations
> of what a perfect bike would be, but it is just for our philosophical
musing
> about what a bicycle is, there's no ontological function. An expectation
> actually becomes the reality of a bicycle because it should morally (it's
> there in the word, an equal part of the meaning of the word). and it
> doesn't materialize into a perfect bycycle, because an expectation can not
> exist by iteslf, it is always one of gazillions of other expectations.
For
> example, my bicycle I expect to be a Fuji S10S everytime I look at it, and
I
> expect it's chain to be little more in need of oil everytime I see it,
even
> though being a Fuji S10S with a dry chain isn't the essence of a bicycle.
>
> And expectations don't come from "out there" the way Plato describes
> essences in the parable, they come from experience of the world. There
> could be no expectation of a bicycle without people having a reason to
> expect a bicycle based on their experience. I only expect my bicycle to
be
> in my basement because that's where i left it. This is the other meaning
of
> expectation: expectation describes reality, the patterns that have come to
> be. We expect apples to fall to the earth because we have seen apples
> falling to the earth, and this is why apples fall to the earth.
>
> The absolute euphoric key is that the two meanings are not seperate and
> coincidental, they are the same meaning. Neither half would retain its
> meaning if the other half were removed. Without a moral imperitive for a
> pattern to repeat, it will stop repeating, and without a pattern to
repeat,
> there will be no moral imperitive. Morality is the way things are, not
the
> way we think things ought to be. The words "should", "supposed to",
> "expected to" and "moral" all describe the probable future, based on the
> past, as well as convey the rightness of that future being realized.
"The
> guests should start arriving at 8" is both a prediction and a statement
that
> they would be impolite to start arriving at another time. "It is
supposed
> to rain today" is both a prediction and a statment that it would be wrong
> (upsetting) for it not to rain today.
>
> It's like Yin and Yang. Neither half came first, the two halves developed
> together, from a single undivided whole called Expectation itself (aka
> Morality or Quality or Reality), and each half leans on the other. The
only
> reason we should do something is because we should, or, the only reason it
> is right to do something is because that is the pattern.
>
> Expectation directly translates to Morality, each word fully containing
all
> the meaning of the other. But Essence doesn't really translate to
Morality,
> at least not without reconceiving essence to have a moral component, a
why.
> Maybe Plato does do that and I just don't know Plato very well.
>
> Thanks for your question.
>
> Your relation of soul to essence seems to me to further the gulf between
> expectation and essence, but if a consciousness is a soul, a consciousness
> is also expectation, so perhaps your on to something. A consciousness
> expects things, it is an engine of expectatation, expectation is its fuel
> and its product. A consciousness devoid of expectation would be dead, not
> conscious at all. There would be no future for it, nothing to expect.
>
> Johnny
>
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