From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Fri Nov 14 2003 - 22:56:23 GMT
Paul,
> > Paul wrote:
> > "The assertion that "the world causes us to have certain beliefs"
> > assumes a pre-existing world, a world of causal pressures at least."
> >
> > Johnny:
> > I noticed this myself. I think the MoQ says that Quality (Morality)
> > causes us to have certain beliefs.
> >
> > Paul:
> > Precisely.
> >
> > Johnny:
> > And then we indeed assume a pre-existing world based on the beliefs
> that
> > we currently have.
> >
> > Paul:
> > Exactly.
>
> Scott:
> How is this different from theological determinism, as one finds in
> Islam or
> Calvinism (not that any particular Muslim or Calvinist is likely to
> actually
> live according to this principle)?
>
> Paul:
> I don't know why but you seem to assume that I think of Quality as some
> kind of god that forces the same set of beliefs into everyone's heads. I
> accept Pirsig's assumption that Quality is empirical experience which
> causes us to hold different beliefs depending on one's unique experience
> of value. Where this differs from pragmatism is that the "stubborn
> physical reality" is one of those beliefs but not the cause of the
> belief.
I didn't say that God (or the world, or Quality) makes everyone have the
same beliefs. Theological determinism just says that it (whichever), being
omnipotent, is the sole cause of everything, including the particular
beliefs you may hold, and whatever actions you carry out based on them. Now
I see that I may have misinterpreted "the world causes us to have certain
beliefs" as meaning "the world is the sole cause of our beliefs". However,
if according to the MOQ freedom lies in DQ but a person is SQ, then I still
think one has theological determinism, in that a static pattern is static in
that it can only react in one way to whatever DQ puts before it (barring
randomness). You-as-SQ, being different from me-as-SQ,. will react
differently from me, but whichever action is still determined by DQ, and not
by you or me.
- Scott
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