From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Dec 31 2003 - 20:01:28 GMT
Hi Bo
-taken this over to the discuss area as I have gone
a bit off the original subject:
>
> I have no doubt that we are attacking the same
> thing, I was only trying to check where you were
> coming from and cover the idealist side. I am very
> happy to switch to the SQ/DQ dualism rather than SO.
> I am happy to talk about an intellectual level in as
> far as this is full of static patterns, i.e various communicable
> ideas/theories/etc, and that has its associated value. But it
> is, of course, also on the move, for example, the MOQ
> as a theory has emerged. But also existentialism, Bergson,
> Whitehead of course. These are intellectual achievements
> but are not easily or completely associated with SOM.
> Does this fall in with what you are saying?
>
> regards
> David M
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <skutvik@online.no>
> To: <moq_focus@moq.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: MF Discussion Topic for December 2003
>
>
> > David M. and Foci.
> >
> > 28 Dec. You said:
> >
> > Bo prev:
> > > NOTA BENE!! In the said example above intellects S/O value
> > > (objectivity-over-subjectivity) is plain to see, so plain that I wonder
> > > how anyone can avoid seeing it. Just as obvious is emotions as the
> > > social "expression" and reason as intellect's, and in light of the
> > > dependency issue one sees emotions' role as what underpins
> > > reason. Why you consider this aspect of the MOQ as imperfect is
> > > very strange.
> >
> > > DM: I agree that SOM, which implies only the distinction, generally
> > > becomes the value "objectivity-over-subjectivity" but this is not
> > > true of the great German idealist tradition that is the other way round
> and
> > > has a great deal to say about reason and is more the concern of European
> > > post-modernism than the "objectivity-over-subjectivity" that is really
> the
> > > value of modern secular techno-scientific society.
> >
> > That the subject/object-METAPHYSICS has 2 - two - components
> > an idealist and a materialist one I have harped on since God knows
> > when, but the SOM removed of its metaphysical 'M' and given the
> > role of MOQ's intellectual level ...means the VALUE of the S/O
> > distinction. Neither the idealist nor the materialist is "right" any
> > longer because the rightness is taken over by the MOQ.
> >
> > > I think that your formual
> > > intellect=SOM I find very odd when I have been educated mainly in the
> German idealist
> > > tradition in the humanities
> >
> > I see your point perfectly and at the start of my SOL "campaign" -
> > when the formula was "intellect=SOM" - it could look as if I had
> > overlooked the idealist half, but with the "intellect=the value of the
> > S/O distinction" form it aught to be crystal clear.
> >
> > > but with dualism turned materialist in the sciences. I
> > > agrre very much with Pirsig with respect to science, but there is a big
> tradition in the
> > > European humanities (also some US pragmatism) that is not based on the
> > > "objectivity-over-subjectivity" value.
> >
> > I know, but please David: It's the subject/object dualism (here in
> > the idealist/materialist form) that the MOQ says is WRONG ...and
> > what it is supposed to replace with its own DQ/SQ dualism.
> > Haven't you understood this elementary fact yet?
> >
> > > We have been happy in Europe to talk alot ion the humanties about the
> > > subjective-experiencing-self over the
> objective-groundless-limited-sciences.
> >
> > Exactly. ;-)
> >
> > Wishing you all a Happy New year
> > Bo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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> >
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> >
> >
>
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