From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jan 04 2004 - 19:33:33 GMT
Hi Dan
Thanks for your comments.
I would urge anyone interested
to read the Cambridge companion to Heidegger,
I think you will be surprised at the links to the
ideas and themes explored by Pirsig. But yes I
have found that grasping Heidegger has involved
getting to grips with some of the German word
choices he makes. German is supposed to be closer
to Greek than some more latin based languages.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: MD intellectual level
> Hello everyone
>
> >From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> >Subject: Re: MD intellectual level
> >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:50:54 -0000
> >
> >Hi Dan
> >
> >Thanks for the info:
>
> Hi David
>
> You're welcome.
>
> >Clearly Pirsig is making a claim of originality
> >for the MOQ here. There is some truth to this claim.
> >Particularly with respect to the langauge he uses,
> >such as Quality, DQ and SQ which are very good and useful.
> >But there is also plenty of reason to see other thinkers
> >as opposed to SOM. I have read such statements in the
> >last month in both Hegel and Nietzsche for example, absolutely
> >explicit discussion of the limitations of subject-object dualism.
> >I do not think it is particularly important to put Pirsig in context,
> >although this can be done, like any origianl author Pirsig probably
> >does not like this, and the concern of philosophy departments with
> >understanding rather than thinking is depressing.
>
> RMP is responding here to a short essay of Platt's concerning the role of
> SOM in the MOQ. I thought about copying and pasting it but perhaps it
would
> be better if you read Lila's Child for yourself when you have the
> opportunity.
>
> >But I do think it is important to bring other supporters
> >to the party where they exist. The fact of the matter is that thinkers
like
> >Heidegger have great influence in academic circles compared to Pirsig.
>
> From what I've read it seems Martin Heidegger felt philosophizing was
> impossible unless it was done using his native German language (with the
> possible exception of ancient Greek). While he may well be of influence in
> academic circles, unless Heidegger's work is read in its original form the
> reader will be influenced from a source (the translator) other than
> Heidegger. In this regard I don't think a comparsion of Heidegger to
Robert
> Pirsig is quite fair--something like cultural apples and oranges.
>
> >Clearly Pirsig had great success with ZMM and less with Lila. I am
> >very disappointed that Lila did not repeat the success of ZMM but it is
> >a more difficult book and a certain moment has passed. Did other people
> >feel the same or do they have greater hope for the fate of Pirsig's
books?
>
> I have a greater hope but I can understand those who feel otherwise. Only
> time will tell.
>
> >Maybe there is some hope of Pirsig influencing other writers but the
moment
> >with a wider audience has passed for now. Unless the film idea ever gets
> >off
> >the
> >ground again, as people seem to be more drawn to film than books. But
film
> >is not so good with ideas as opposed to images. I think the engagement
> >demonstrated
> >by people at this site shows that they wish to understand Pirsig rather
> >than
> >categorise
> >him. Of course, Hegel, Nietzsche, etc have been categorised in their time
> >and most
> >people fail to really understand them or even read them. I hope Pirsig
does
> >not suggest
> >that we cease to go back and read the neglected corners of thinking,
> >because
> >such was the
> >journey that he made himself.
>
> I don't think that's what he's saying at all. Perhaps what he means is
that
> when we are confronted with the unfamiliar (originality) we tend to
attempt
> to catagorize it according to that which we already know.
>
> >For example Hegel never said anything about
> >thesis, antithesis
> >followed by synthesis.
>
> You may well be right--I haven't read all of Hegel's writings--but I think
> you'll find that Georg W.F. Hegel's "Encyclopedia of the Philosophical
> Sciences in Outline and Critical Writings" (in which he expounded his
> system) is set out in dialectical triads comprising a thesis, antithesis,
> and synthesis. He doesn't have to state it; thesis, antithesis, and
> synthesis is an implicit system around which to organize this work.
>
> >He suggested that the understanding could only work
> >using opposed
> >categories, that to fully grasp in dialectical reason these opposites
(e.g.
> >subject and object) you need
> >to seek what is common to the two terms, that underlying all opposites is
a
> >concrete whole. Sounds
> >pretty familiar to Pirsig's use of the Quality concept, although, of
course
> >not identical. So that's my
> >invitation to Hegel to join the party. Although I suspect he would
probably
> >eat us all alive, intellectually
> >that is.
>
> While I do have several translations of his books (for reference purposes
> more than for reading) I'm afraid I find what little I have read of
Hegel's
> to be rather dry. If not for Robert Pirsig's books I suppose I would have
> very little interest in philosophy.
>
> Thank you for your reply,
>
> Dan
>
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