From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Apr 29 2004 - 18:08:31 BST
Hi Dave
Understand your point and agree in principle.
But I think that it would be more justified to say
that Sam's views are hard to fit with his Christian
inheritance than to say that he was weighed down
and incapable of grasping the MOQ fully. I have
little doubt that Sam has a good grasp of DQ, most
people are stuck within an SOM position with no grasp
of DQ. Might be easier for a non-Christian to get through
this eye of the needle than a Christian but I would never
say impossible, the UK Christian tradition is far from literal,
take our popular Mr Don Cupitt for example.
Back to general point about 'truth' really. I state my own
position as critical realist, i.e. I get all that post-modern
metaphor stuff but am happy to say that a conversation with nature
occurs, therefore we can make truth claims about what we think
nature is telling us (even without any natural language, we sort of
have to persuade nature to become a conversational partner in a language
we have constructed). But I am less sure what I think about truth outside
of the context of science. What are your views on truth?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "storeyd" <storeyd@bc.edu>
To: "Joe" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>; <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:25 AM
Subject: RE: MD Religion of the future.
> Hi all
>
> David M said: I have been disappointed by the overall reaction to Sam's
> >ideas, seems to me that we should be promoting the MOQ for all not
driving
> >out people who bring in heavy baggage like Christianity or pragmatism or
> >whatever. Although I equally think people should not take offense at a
bit
> >of heated argument or even abuse, but we aren't all as non-sensitive as I
> >am.
>
>
> While tolerance is an indispensible attitude to productive discussions, it
is
> not the ceiling of discourse, and ultimately it is a limited perspective.
> Why? Because of the same problem that plague many a postmodern pluralist:
> nonjudgmentalism. it's when the subject does not merely reserve judgment
in
> order to acquire a critical, multi-lateral perspective, but becomes
incapable
> of judgment, and lumps all views under a the relativistic banner of
pluralism,
> sanctioned by watchwords like sensitive, pluralistic, inclusive, etc.
This
> is, to an extent, all very good, but in the impassioned rush to achieve
> inclusivity, one risks conflating and ignoring the irreconcialable
differences
> between different views; in other words, not all differences are formal
> (however, much of the postmodern world believes all ideologies,
viewpoints,
> perspectives are different amalgamations of forms, signs, surfaces, texts,
> etc., that is, it does not believe in qualitatively different content
(which
> is another way of saying that it does not believe in spirit, meaning,
Quality,
> etc.) This is what happenned with Sam. Remember, Pirsig certainly feels
that
> some views are of a higher caliber of quality than others. Christianity
> (well, what C.S. Lewis called "mere christianity", which basically means
the
> sine qua non of the faith, meaning that the incarnation was a literal,
actual,
> historical event, the only way to God) confuses DQ with SQ, and that
means,
> according to Pirsig's metaphysics, that it is a low or limited quality
view,
> period. No buts. The truth, David M, is that Sam removed himself from
the
> discussion, we did not drive him out. The insensitivity, you see, is due
to
> him, not to others who disagreed with him and tried to convince him
otherwise.
> "heavy baggage", after all, tends to weigh one down, and in general, it
is a
> nuisance to those who sincerely wish to travel.
> What do you think?
> -Dave
>
>
>
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