From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jun 02 2004 - 20:06:40 BST
Hi Mark
I am not sure we should associate time with patterns.
I see patterns as a snap shot, perhaps an enduring one.
There is a chair. It stays the same, in that sense it is timeless.
When process kicks in, when the chair rots away we can experience
time. Imagine nothing changing at all, would we cease to have time?
So time perhaps should be linked to patterns breaking down and
patterns emerging from nothing, and they go back to nothing.
For example a person dies, the same atoms will be lying in the
death bed but the capacity to change dynamically will have departed.
Make any sense?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 1:41 AM
Subject: MD Patterns (and consciousness)
Mark 2-6-04: Hello Johnny,
How are you doing?
JM:
Does anyone care to comment on the time component of patterns, how they
ontologically continue the past into the future?
Mark 2-6-04: That's a blasted good question. Time is a pattern.
Creative activity often destroys any sense of time.
Any activity which requires the pattern of timing in order to succeed (boiling an egg for example) is a coherent state between time as a pattern of value and the activity to which these patterns are related. But a Master cook could probably cook you a 3 min egg without counting.
For example, i am British, so obviously i am obsessed with tea. ;) When i fill my teapot with boiling water, i don't measure the quantity of water as it enters the teapot, rather, i listen to the rising tone the pot makes as it fills with liquid. I have learned to hear how full the pot is when it is at its best capacity for making tea. Then i stir the pot. I have learned that when the water slows down i have to stir it again, and when this motion stops the tea will taste about right as long as i have not been distracted.
Don't ask me to boil an egg without an hour glass timer though?
Time is one of the first patterns we discriminate when we sift experience.
So, to answer your question directly: Time is a pattern of value which indicates the coherence of a repertoire of patterns. There is a coherence appropriate to each level - that is to say, there is a temporal 'feel' to each level in the MOQ - Inorganic time (cosmological evolution), Organic time (may be related to seasons) Social time (Train timetables, work patterns, etc. - related to daylight) and intellectual time (structured thought, - not intuition, which may be timeless).
I would recommend Ant McWatt's MOQ text book which has a chapter on Time.
MJ:
Also, patterns explain
what consciousness is - it is patterns. Patterns are all that
consciousness is conscious of, and patterns could not exist without
consciousness to see them into the future.
Mark 2-6-04: I feel you are suggesting an objective nature for time which acts as a backdrop to what consciousness does Johnny? "...how they ontologically continue the past into the future?" They, 'patterns' do not inhere in Time. Patterns inhere in coherent relationships which respond to DQ depending on degree of coherence, which are then construed as forming a temporal continuum.
Consciousness is degrees of coherence, and this means degrees of SQ-SQ tension. Time is one such tension, but it is primarily the value of relationships.. Good relationships have a high sense of coherence, and at this degree of value time can appear to stop in wonder, joy, beauty?
Biological coherence does the same thing if you have ever been chased by a threat. Run away! Run away! No time here.
That's what i think anyway!
All the best,
Mark
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