From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Jun 14 2004 - 02:06:10 BST
MSH, Horse, and all y'all:
Horse wrote:
I think that Reagan, Thatcher and Kohl were little more than bit
players in the events of the late 80's with regard to the USSR. Along
with Reagan and the majority of other 'world leaders' at the time
they were just carrying on the same old same old. The military build
up by the US and Europe, increasing the number of Nukes to insane
levels, conflict by proxy etc....
dmb says:
I heard a most remarkable thing last night on C-Span. (A cable channel
devoted to covering government and related issues.) The spy novelist Tom
Clancey, of all people, was about the only one who saw it coming. (I know,
he's not the most scholorly voice in the world and I'd be very skeptical if
I hadn't heard it myself.) Anyway, when he heard that Gorbachev had
cancelled history exams in schools througout the empire because "there is no
sense in testing their knowledge of lies" Clancey called his favorite
reporter and asked him to check it out. He called back an hour later and
varified the story. Both men agreed that it meant the beginning of the end.
But even more interesting were his comments about who pushed the Soviets,
who really deserves credit. He said it all sounds like one of his spy
novels, except that its not fiction. He claimed that a set a classified
documents proves that it was actually the Saudis and the Pope who done 'em
in. Clancey said says that this documents would not be declassified for 20
more years and lamented the fact that he expects there to be book after book
giving credit to Reagan and all we can do about it is wait 20 years for the
truth to come out. Apparently, the Soviets were entirely dependant upon oil
sales for their hard currency and so it was the manipulation of prices,
beginning in the 1970's, that really busted them financially. And the Pope,
working through the churches and such, lent support to the Solidarity
movement and others like it, as Horse rightly describes...
Horse said:
Walesa's role in the Polish trade union Solidarity (which he helped
to found and was the first independent trade union in the Soviet
bloc) was crucial in bringing about strikes and civil unrest which
led directly to the toppling of Jaruzelski's government. Which in
turn led to the creation of a non-communist Polish government - a not
inconsiderable feat. ..This was to be repeated in different regions
throughout the Soviet Union and it is this which directly caused the
fall of communism.
Horse said:
So bury the tribal elders (Reagan, Thatcher et. al.) with all the
Social level ceremony they deserve then forget them, 'cause if you're
looking for a couple of true Brujo's then look no further than Walesa
and Gorbachev. These two brought about the sort of change within
their (and our) societies unseen for many years.
dmb replies:
Joseph Campbell explained the myths behind that kind of funeral service
(after Kennedy was shot) and it really blew my mind. Its very, very old even
if the TV coverage is new. I found the whole thing to be quite fascinating.
The entire week turned out to be a advertising campaign for the republican
party, but the ritual itself is really quite rich in meaning. Basically we
watched a man become a god. And to many Americans, he was. He offered a
comfortable and simple kind of "truth" that came as a relief to those who
were disturbed by the war in Vietnam, the hippies and protesters, the race
riots and the Watergate scandal. His ascent to power represented the USA
falling back to the last static latch, back to Victorianism and the like.
His was a social level life and so its only fitting that he got a social
level send off to comfort his social level fans.
Thanks,
dmb
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Jun 14 2004 - 02:26:48 BST