From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jul 06 2004 - 16:43:06 BST
Hi Anthony,
You wrote:
> You certainly like giving me homework these days, Mr Holden! I really have
> to get back to revising for my viva in August though for one last time (at
> least, for a while) I’ll try to address your queries:
PH:
I appreciate your time. Your answers to four out of eight of my queries
took some digging for which I'm grateful. Incidentally, What is a "viva?"
> Platt stated July 5th: for instance, where did Pirsig say . . .
> . . . capitalism exploits sweat shop labor?
> Robert Pirsig stated to Anthony McWatt January 15th 1994:
> “Labor is commonly exploited in the name of ‘free-enterprise’ but in my
> opinion labor unions, as business agents for the workers, are very much a
> part of the free enterprise system, and tend to equalize economic forces.”
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
> As sweat shop labour is non-unionised labour then Pirsig would obviously
> conclude that this part of the global workforce is exploited by capitalism.
>
> Moreover, in LILA (Chapter 17) it’s stated that:
>
> The conservatives [i.e. read capitalists] who keep trumpeting about the
> virtues of free enterprise are normally just supporting their own
> self-interest. They are just doing the usual cover-up for the rich in their
> age-old exploitation of the poor.
Platt comments:
That's right out of Marx. I'm surprised Pirsig fell for that old line.
But, he more than makes up for it by pronouncing free enterprise morally
superior to socialism.
> Platt stated July 5th: for instance, where did Pirsig say . . . [that]
> equity in the distribution of products is morally desirable?
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> That’s Rader & Jessup (1976, p. 376) so that’s not an MOQ sentiment though
> in LILA (Chapter 22), Pirsig does state:
>
> ‘The greatest satisfaction of the greatest number, rather than social
> tradition, is what determines what is moral and what is not. The
> scientific test of a "vice" should not be, "Does society approve or
> disapprove?" The test should be, "Is it rational or irrational?"’
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> As such, it seems that the MOQ does imply a rational distribution of
> material products even if it doesn’t support an absolute equity in this
> distribution.
Platt comments:
The "greatest satisfaction for the greatest number" is cast by Pirsig as a
negative rather than a positive. The complete text includes a disparaging
introduction:
"The new intellectualism of the twenties argued that if there are
principles for right social conduct they are to be discovered by social
experiment to see what produces the greatest satisfaction. The greatest
satisfaction of the greatest number, rather than social tradition, is what
determines what is moral and what is not. The scientific test of a "vice"
should not be, "Does society approve or disapprove?" The test should be,
"Is it rational or irrational?"
As you know, Pirsig was no fan of the "new intellectualism of the
twenties" when it came to moral issues, primarily because the new
intellectualism based on SO science had "no provision for morals." So I
don't agree that the MOQ implies a "rational" distribution of products and
services. Morally unguided "rationality" is what Pirsig objects to.
Anyway, who decides what's rational?
Platt comments further on material not repeated:
Regarding material success being a "hollow goal" I have to smile since
Pirsig himself found a wonderful goal in sailing his material boat which,
as anyone who has had a boat knows, takes a large chunk of material wealth
to maintain.
Regarding "Quality of Life," it appears in blaming science for creating
"mechanical rabbits" and leading mankind to "multiple truths" that he has
1) ignored the contributions of science to longevity, and 2) contradicted
his own assertion, "But if Quality or excellence is seen as the ultimate
reality then it becomes possible for more than one set of truths to
exist." (Lila, 8)
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> Firstly, you’ve got to remember that Pirsig lived through the McCarthy era.
> I therefore doubt that many people of his generation (though Chomsky is a
> notable exception) are going to couch their arguments against capitalism
> that explicitly.
Platt comments:
Wow. That's pure speculation unless Pirsig confessed he feared
McCarthyism.
> Secondly, Pirsig (very kindly) read through the Textbook twice to ensure
> what it stated about the MOQ was, more or less, accurate. As far as
> Section 7.2. (THE MOQ PERCEPTION OF CAPITALISM) is concerned he queried a
> line in the Rader & Jessup quote which I consequently edited out (as far as
> I remember) but that was all. Of course, it doesn’t necessarily mean that
> he fully endorses this section (as with any other part of the Textbook)
> but, at the same time, it won’t be that much out of kilter with how he
> understands the MOQ either.
Excellent point. I only wonder to what extent he does endorse your section
on Capitalism since he obviously pro DQ-receptive free-enterprise.
> Finally, Platt stated July 5th:
>
> Do you have "inside" information from Pirsig that the rest of don't have
> regarding his views of capitalism? If so, would you care to share it with
> us?
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> Whatever his views when he was younger, I think Pirsig is presently a lot
> more interested in establishing the MOQ and, through doing so, primarily
> improve the Western quality of life. As I said previously, I think we
> should move onto developing this rather than pondering which out-dated
> SOM-based economic system Pirsig perceived as the most problematic. It’s
> pretty obvious that he recognised serious problems with both.
Platt wraps it up:
Agree, although given his druthers, I'll bet Pirsig would pick capitalism
over socialism as being the lesser of two flawed systems.
Thanks again for your time. I promise no more challenges to your superb
MOQ text.
Best regards,
Platt
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