From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Mon Jul 26 2004 - 11:52:25 BST
Hi David
DMB quoted Wilber:
"the core of the perennial philosophy is the view that reality is
composed of various LEVELS OF EXISTENCE - levels of being and knowing -
ranging from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit. Each senior
dimension transcends but includes its juniors, so that this is a
conception of wholes within wholes within wholes indefinitely, reaching
from dirt to divinity."
I haven't read any Wilber but I've seen the phrase "transcend and
include" used many times when Wilber's levels are mentioned on this
forum. I'm not sure but I don't think this particular idea maps across
to Pirsig. In his letter regarding the intellectual level, Pirsig wrote:
"Just as every biological pattern is also inorganic, but not all
inorganic patterns are biological; and just as every social [pattern] is
also biological, although not all biological patterns are social; so
every intellectual pattern is social although not all social patterns
are intellectual."
So, although each level of patterns can be said to "transcend" the level
below, it is difficult to see how it can be said to "include" the whole
of it. If it did, all inorganic patterns would also be biological; all
biological patterns would also be social and so on.
As said, I haven't read any Wilber other than that which has been posted
here so I may have missed something.
Cheers
Paul
P.S. Do you remember saying this?
"I think Paul's assertion that "the MOQ is an atheistic system" goes too
far. (According to our dear friend, Mr. Webster, "atheism" denies the
existence of any kind of God or deity, not just "the usual,
anthropomorphic" kind.) Since, in the MOQ, DQ is associated so closely
with religious mysticism, it can't rightly be called an atheistic
system." Date: Sun Feb 15 2004 - 18:49:18 GMT
I think you now have the context in which to understand my statement
that the MOQ is an atheistic system.
P.P.S.
I think when Mark says, "Thanks for a great post rejecting Ken Wilber's
half baked approach to philosophy," he is picking up on the contrasting
views of Pirsig and Wilber regarding the philosophical use of the term
"spirit."
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