MF Charcteristics of a giant

From: Johannes Volmert (
Date: Wed May 31 2000 - 23:04:58 BST

Hello Moq-Foci,

The question, what exactly defines a living organism has been put up frequently
not only by biologicans but also by theologist and philosophers. What we really
discuss here is not the question, if an undoubted existing structure composed of
human beings, who can think, has the ability to think too, but if there is an
organism, whose goals are different from those of the people, who live in it.

Therefore is the question, whether he has a self-conciousness or not, completely
irrelevant to the question if exists or not. I personally don't believe, that
one can speak of a self-conciousness of the giant in comparison to what we
define as self-conciousness for human-beings. But even when talking about our
self-conciousness, there would be 30 definitions of self-conciousness in asking
100 people; the different psychological directions havn't found consensus in
that question, too. I try to show you my concept of a social-(or whatever)giant,
without touching the above question, not only for the reason, that I stubbornly
(I can see a lot of sense in your arguments, Bo, but.... ;-) ) insist on my
opinion that we might not see a self-conciousness of the giant, even if it is
there, but also because I think, that it is independent of the question, wether
it is there or not.

1.An organism is independent of the elements, he consists of.

A giant organism (social), such as a city or a national society is following
it's own purposes. Have you ever heard of political party doing, what they have
been voted for? (Not all of them are lying, or do they?) Have you ever heard of
national population, who intended to become ruled by totlitarian parties? Want
to be spied out by intra-national-organs ( Gestapo, Stasi,...). Who exactly can
be blamed for the agitation against communists (McCarty)?

2. A giant organisms lifetime is not at all that of a single person

3. A giant organism can be born(USA, Australia) and he can die (Chartago,
emperium of the Romans, the 3rd Reich (thanks god!)), but he (mostly) lives
longer than a single person.

4 A giant organism can get ill and he is (mostly) able to get rid of his
Periodic infection with Neo-Nazism, Anti-Communism, National terrorism

5. A giant wants to live and wants to grow in a often egoistic manner. And he is
working against other national organism, in effort to expand. And he might
get smaller (or is killed!), in case he is to weak in competion with other

6. A giant can change his stragies and his programs in effort to adapt to new
living conditions, for example many of the communist societies. Many have
changed their orthodox political system; the ones being too static disappear.

7.A giant can duplicate (?) ( I' m not sure about this, I must admit) and
The colonies in Africa and in a sense UK - USA, Australia

These are all characteristics, that too are considered to be characteristics of
biological organisms, arn't they?

(I see, I'm running out of time)

Thanks to all of you for this month's most lively discussion. I hope we return
to this or a similar topic someday.

Regards to all of you,

JoVo -

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