From: Wim Nusselder (email@example.com)
Date: Thu Feb 05 2004 - 07:19:02 GMT
Thanks for choosing my topic. Hope that a little explanation will be able to
also involve in the discussion the majority that didn't...
I formulated it as:
'Is it THE MoQ we are discussing (i.e. as meant by Pirsig) or are we (should
we be) discussing the merits of our various versions (with Pirsig's writings
expressing only one version or even a version that develops in time)?'
This is NOT meant as merely a suggestion for a rule that should guide our
behaviour on this list (and MD). That's how Amilcar probably understood it
when he wrote 29 Jan 2004 22:22:02 -0500:
'Honestly, i'm really not being facetious. But Wim, is this your offering
for a topic? If not, i think you should ask it as your suggestion (whether
we'll acutally 'obey' the findings/opinions is another topic i guess -hehe).
it has my vote.'
Please understand it primarily as a discussion about the nature of the MoQ.
The starting point, on which we all agree (I guess except Bodvar) could be
that the MoQ is an intellectual pattern of value.
They way we understand the MoQ should fit our definition of an intellectual
pattern of value.
It does seem to fit Pirsig's definition (from 'Lila's Child'):
Pirsig there defines 'the intellectual level' as 'the collection and
manipulation of symbols, created in the brain, that stand for patterns of
A definition of an intellectual pattern of value derived from Pirsig's
definition of 'the intellectual level' could be:
'a pattern of symbols created in the brain that stand for patterns of
It also fits my favourite definition of intellectual patterns of value (that
doesn't -in my opinion- contradict Pirsig's one) as patterns of value that
are maintained by copying of 'reasons for' (behaviour, natural phenomena,
whatever) other patterns of experience.
So, please don't merely give an opinion on whether the MoQ we are discussing
is merely the result of Pirsig's activities or of our collective activities.
Please support it with ideas about what pattern of symbols you experience in
that MoQ, about what it stands for and about how it is maintained (or with
other ideas derived from YOUR favourite definition of an intellectual
pattern of value).
Bodvar (and any others who think that the MoQ belongs to a fifth level)
could alternatively argue from a description of how he knows (for lack of
definability of a fifth level pattern of value) that the MoQ is a fifth
level pattern of value and then tell us how that knowledge leads him to his
With friendly greetings,
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